Looking for an illuminated answer:

[狮子王]

Dear kind brothers and good sisters here in this forum, recently, your most illuminated brother has a situation. Well, not really that it has happened yet, but a potential situation. I feel very embarass to ask my friends for advice and you know, I am very famous and well known among the elite circle.

I know there are many hiddened enlightened beings in this forum and hence I seek your suggestion and I will not blame you for anything whatever my decision on this issue.( have not happened yet)

Well, the situation I have is : I DO NOT WISH TO ATTEND MY FATHER'S FUNERAL WHEN IT HAPPENS.

You must be thinking what an unfilial and disrepectful person I am. Well, the fact is, I am not. The fact is, this father of mine have a mistress for many years and even started a family in Johor, divorcing my mother when she was at the most helpless time. ( I have adult step-siblings as a result of this)

I do not wish to be associate with this step family as I will be endorsing them for taking my father's love away if I attend the funeral.

Further, very high possibility they will be conducting some Chinese Taoist rituals and ask me to pray to something which I do not understand.

Kind brothers and sisters here, do you have any ingenious plan for me to excuse myself from this funeral?

Thank You in Advance.

[hopeful]

is this the father that get stabbed a few times in front of your eyes, or another father?

[hopeful]

i thought everybody as a child has mastered the trick of being physically present but mentally absent?

so i suggest you be there physically, but your mind elsewhere and voila, you are not present at the funeral. your glazed eyes and refusal to acknowledge people around you would tell other people that you are deeply shocked, saddened by your father's death, but in actual fact, you are thinking what next property to buy.

once you learn to forgive your father, you will be more at peace with yourself. just as the big J forgive us for our trangressions, we must learn to forgive others for their trangressions.

[狮子王]

is this the father that get stabbed a few times in front of your eyes, or another father?

Same father.

[狮子王]

i thought everybody as a child has mastered the trick of being physically present but mentally absent?

so i suggest you be there physically, but your mind elsewhere and voila, you are not present at the funeral. your glazed eyes and refusal to acknowledge people around you would tell other people that you are deeply shocked, saddened by your father's death, but in actual fact, you are thinking what next property to buy.

WOW ! I was thinking along the same line. But the old relatives there will force me to hold incense and pray to dunno what leh

[狮子王]

is this the father that get stabbed a few times in front of your eyes, or another father?

I am impressed at your memory

Well, some elders also read my story and told me the truth after why he got beaten up. He was actually going to call another group of gangsters into the dispute. That is the reason. Cannot imagine his kind of character leh. That is why I removed the story from my blog.

[hopeful]

WOW ! I was thinking along the same line. But the old relatives there will force me to hold incense and pray to dunno what leh

i have same problem. my relatives who are followers of the big J are damn fanatic,refuse to hold incense. The only son also refuse to lead the procession.

I was thinking along the lines.
why dont they just hold joss sticks, follow the motion, only as a form of respect, follow tradition but not actual prayer. if they have done that, then everybody would be happy isn't it.
holding josstick does not equate praying other big G.
leading funeral procession does not equate praying to other big G.

don't know what is more important to the children, the parents who birth them, cared for them, love them or the image of them being followers of big J. since i would think the big J would not mind since the main message in NT is love.

[狮子王]

i have same problem. my relatives who are followers of the big J are damn fanatic,refuse to hold incense. The only son also refuse to lead the procession.

I was thinking along the lines.
why dont they just hold joss sticks, follow the motion, only as a form of respect, follow tradition but not actual prayer. if they have done that, then everybody would be happy isn't it.
holding josstick does not equate praying other big G.
leading funeral procession does not equate praying to other big G.

don't know what is more important to the children, the parents who birth them, cared for them, love them or the image of them being followers of big J. since i would think the big J would not mind since the main message in NT is love.

Perfectly understood where you are coming from.

The reason why I never approach my JC's mates for advice is for the same reason. They do not encourage the holding of incense too and they can be there to support me. Their resistance for me will reflect badly on themselves, not me. That is the last thing I want to happen to them.

But if you have an illuminated eye like me, you will understand why I do not wish to hold incense even as a form of motion.

I can share with you that I have actually seen the Fallen Angels doing their works right in front of me. It affected me so much that I was really warded into IMH but of course my family kept that a secret from the public.

I am saved by JC and hence my respect for Him only.

[indomie]

Perfectly understood where you are coming from.

The reason why I never approach my JC's mates for advice is for the same reason. They do not encourage the holding of incense too and they can be there to support me. Their resistance for me will reflect badly on themselves, not me. That is the last thing I want to happen to them.

But if you have an illuminated eye like me, you will understand why I do not wish to hold incense even as a form of motion.

I can share with you that I have actually seen the Fallen Angels doing their works right in front of me. It affected me so much that I was really warded into IMH but of course my family kept that a secret from the public.

I am saved by JC and hence my respect for Him only.

Jesus did observe jewish custom at the Synagogue. In fact he was angry when a synagogue was used as a market place. Since u were born chinese, u can observe a chinese custom. By the way brother, what was Jesus religion when he was childhood? Was it jewish?

[hopeful]

Perfectly understood where you are coming from.

The reason why I never approach my JC's mates for advice is for the same reason. They do not encourage the holding of incense too and they can be there to support me. Their resistance for me will reflect badly on themselves, not me. That is the last thing I want to happen to them.

But if you have an illuminated eye like me, you will understand why I do not wish to hold incense even as a form of motion.

I can share with you that I have actually seen the Fallen Angels doing their works right in front of me. It affected me so much that I was really warded into IMH but of course my family kept that a secret from the public.

I am saved by JC and hence my respect for Him only.

you are only following the form.

i have seen many followers of other big G.
for the rag heads, NOT eating pork is the easiest thing to do. they are damn strict about NOT eating pork. However, these same fellows womanise, drink alcohol, commit other sins that is against their religion.

so in your case and other followers of big J, NOT holding joss sticks is the easiest thing to do.
forgiving and loving those who trangressed against you is very difficult isn't it. by not forgiving and loving your father, you are not following the big J.

[Allthepies]

i have same problem. my relatives who are followers of the big J are damn fanatic,refuse to hold incense. The only son also refuse to lead the procession.

I was thinking along the lines.
why dont they just hold joss sticks, follow the motion, only as a form of respect, follow tradition but not actual prayer. if they have done that, then everybody would be happy isn't it.
holding josstick does not equate praying other big G.
leading funeral procession does not equate praying to other big G.

don't know what is more important to the children, the parents who birth them, cared for them, love them or the image of them being followers of big J. since i would think the big J would not mind since the main message in NT is love.

super thumb up...

in situation such as this, it leads me to wonder whether
(1)outright actions for everybody to see
or
(2)real belief in the heart (that nobody can see)
is the more important to Big J.

or maybe our humble human brain has unknowingly misinterpreted what Big J wants.

[狮子王]

I am glad good brothers indomie, allthepies and hopeful here have indeed solved my dilemma. What you said is very logical and have really subduced much of my anxiety about this matter

Thanks. Very happy I can reduce my medicine dosage tonight

[Arcachon]

You must be thinking what an unfilial and disrepectful person I am. Well, the fact is, I am not. The fact is, this father of mine have a mistress for many years and even started a family in Johor, divorcing my mother when she was at the most helpless time. ( I have adult step-siblings as a result of this)

Go and visit him before he die.

I do not wish to be associate with this step family as I will be endorsing them for taking my father's love away if I attend the funeral.

In the old days, man with more than one wife is normal.

Further, very high possibility they will be conducting some Chinese Taoist rituals and ask me to pray to something which I do not understand.

Explain to them you are Christian, those who know the Chinese Taoist ritual well will not allow you to go near their ritual, only those who don't understand will ask you to enjoy them.

Kind brothers and sisters here, do you have any ingenious plan for me to excuse myself from this funeral?

Go and pay your last respect, and bring a big bible along.

Thank You in Advance.

http://www.chinaculture.org/gb/en_ch...tent_46092.htm

http://traditionscustoms.com/death-r...hinese-funeral

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...MMxkrFxD6Sxa0w

[狮子王]

http://www.chinaculture.org/gb/en_ch...tent_46092.htm

http://traditionscustoms.com/death-r...hinese-funeral

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...MMxkrFxD6Sxa0w

Good brother, thanks for taking the trouble to provide the info.

[Reisor]

super thumb up...

in situation such as this, it leads me to wonder whether
(1)outright actions for everybody to see
or
(2)real belief in the heart (that nobody can see)
is the more important to Big J.

or maybe our humble human brain has unknowingly misinterpreted what Big J wants.

If you hold a joss stick as a symbol, but your heart is saying prayers to Him for the deceased only, what sin is there in it? Your prayers will be the symbolic of the incense smoke going up to Heaven.

[Arcachon]

Taoist Chinese believe burning undedicated incense in the home attracts the dreaded hungry ghosts, who consume the smoke and ruin the fortunes of the family.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incense

[Arcachon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gZY4i4Kg3s

[Allthepies]

If you hold a joss stick as a symbol, but your heart is saying prayers to Him for the deceased only, what sin is there in it? Your prayers will be the symbolic of the incense smoke going up to Heaven.

Pardon my poor English, that the point I'm trying to make

[Petersim]

WOW ! I was thinking along the same line. But the old relatives there will force me to hold incense and pray to dunno what leh

Hi BJ21T,
You just need to search your heart for the answer to the following three questions:
1. Did your father provide for you financially in all your needs during your growing up period despite being separated from you due to his divorce from your mother?
2. Was your father the person you can turn to in times of dire needs ? ( may not need to ve the one and only person though)
3. Can you master the action of having the Cross in your mind although holding a joss stick in your hand?

If your answer is "yes" to all above, then go attend the funeral

Cheers.

[shareidiot]

My grandma (in her 90s) passed on 3 years ago. The Taoism (Teochew style) funeral was a "HAPPY" one, as she was considered blessed to enjoy 4 generations. She died without pain (no major illness).

1 of my siblings' & his family, my own nuclear family & another cousin, are believers of God.

Although the Teochew style funeral was a 'big' one & most of attendees are Taoists/Buddhists, our relatives respect our decision NOT to hold incense.

We followed all the kneelings etc, but did not hold any incense.

I believe you can do the same, as long as you express your decision to your 'extended relatives'. Trust in Him to do the work.

No matter what your dad may have done to you (& your mom) in the past, let it go (I know it is easier said than done). It is the final respect that you can give to him.

[hopeful]

i read with amusement that most followers of big G in this forum are more interested in form rather than the essence.

that fellow's problem is not holding joss sticks, that is immaterial to him being a follower of J.

his problem's is the hatred of his father. Now what the fxxk is the essence of NT. It is love and forgiveness. Not some idiocy spread by equally idiotic followers of J that incense or following chinese custom/tradition would make one a bad follower of J.

Can you love and forgive those who have hurt you, trangressed against you? can you forgive those who have hurt you and are now seeking your forgiveness?
That is the more important issue facing the guy, rather than hold joss stick or not.

as mentioned before, Not following chinese tradition/customs is easiest option. Much harder for that guy to forgive his dead father. and with that, D will have an easier time to enter the black spot in his heart.

When face with test of faith, most people would take the easier path. However, the path to G is a difficult one. The correct path is always the hardest one to take.

[hopeful]

Hi BJ21T,
......
3. Can you master the action of having the Cross in your mind although holding a joss stick in your hand?

If your answer is "yes" to all above, then go attend the funeral

Cheers.

3) might as well suggest to him to hold 2 joss stick at right angles

[eng81157]

in the epistles, it is stated clearly that everything is permissible, as long as it doesn't cause another fellow believer to stumble.

for example, tattoos - some christians ok, some christians think it is the mark of the devil. modern music - most are ok, some christians think it is from the devil.

my granny just passed away last year and had buddhist rites. the believers in the family have an agreement - no joss sticks, while we follow through everything else. did that dilute our faith? no. did the funeral proceed peacefully? yes.

the complicated part here is the personal grudge with the 'extended' family members. if it were me, i would choose to honor my dad first before anything else and disputes shall be left aside. by doing so, i can be, at least, a good testimony for Jesus

[shareidiot]

I agree with your expression, somehow aligned with mine.

You are definitely more tactful in putting them in words.

in the epistles, it is stated clearly that everything is permissible, as long as it doesn't cause another fellow believer to stumble.

for example, tattoos - some christians ok, some christians think it is the mark of the devil. modern music - most are ok, some christians think it is from the devil.

my granny just passed away last year and had buddhist rites. the believers in the family have an agreement - no joss sticks, while we follow through everything else. did that dilute our faith? no. did the funeral proceed peacefully? yes.

the complicated part here is the personal grudge with the 'extended' family members. if it were me, i would choose to honor my dad first before anything else and disputes shall be left aside. by doing so, i can be, at least, a good testimony for Jesus

[darkseed73]

in the epistles, it is stated clearly that everything is permissible, as long as it doesn't cause another fellow believer to stumble.

for example, tattoos - some christians ok, some christians think it is the mark of the devil. modern music - most are ok, some christians think it is from the devil.

my granny just passed away last year and had buddhist rites. the believers in the family have an agreement - no joss sticks, while we follow through everything else. did that dilute our faith? no. did the funeral proceed peacefully? yes.

the complicated part here is the personal grudge with the 'extended' family members. if it were me, i would choose to honor my dad first before anything else and disputes shall be left aside. by doing so, i can be, at least, a good testimony for Jesus

Yes, +1 for this post

[PN]

BJ, Why you so KuNiang ?

1. Your dad & your mom brought you to this world & gave you life. Right?
2. You can hate your dad & distance the other side of the siblings when your dad is around. I won't comment or argue as it's your feeling & your choice
3. When your dad pass away, his body will decay and his soul doesn't exist anymore. Whatever hatred you have against him should be forgiven & forgotten.
4. Ask yourself this question, if other relatives or friends pass away, do you ask what type of funeral before you attend the wake? You will still attend right ? So which religion funeral shouldn't be a subject of discussion. It's his funerals not yours.

Remember this "万恶淫为首，百善孝为先 ". Your children will be watching how you handle the situation.
Don't let the same happen to you when you need to go one day.

[Arcachon]

Honour your father and your mother

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honour_...and_thy_mother

Ten Commandments

The commandments

I am the LORD thy God

Thou shalt have no other gods
No graven images or likenesses
Not take the LORD's name in vain
Remember the sabbath day
Honour thy father and thy mother
Thou shalt not kill
Thou shalt not commit adultery
Thou shalt not steal
Thou shalt not bear false witness
Thou shalt not covet

[Arcachon]

If you look into the practice of holding joss-sticks, it is never in the context of respect but it is always taken as praying to another. There are many other ways of showing respect which will not be misconstrued. But the very act of holding and placing the joss sticks into an urn, is already a form of worship, irregardless of whether you called it respect or not. As a believer, we are not to worship anyone except God. No man or angelic or spiritual being deserves any worship except God. A Christian who holds joss sticks and placing them before their ancestors is already involved in ancestor worship. In the book, on page 68, I quote "God forbids a relationship with the spirits of the dead. See, Deuteronomy 18:9-14. Therefore it is wrong to burn joss sticks and incense to the dead..."


http://exposingchineseancestorworshi...ss-sticks.html

[狮子王]

I tend to go with brother's eng81157's suggestion. I think I shall negotiate with the elders first to excuse myself from holding the incense. As brother Arcachon rightly pointed out, it is wrong for believer to hold the incense.

I never had held once willingly the incense when I was a kid. Since the day I know the existence of the Most High. I knew I shall not worship any other. But when I was a kid, I was intimidated by relatives' pressure into holding them. Some of them even went to some fengshui masters and discovered that I will become a Christian eventually because I belong to the Most High. But instead of supporting my belief, they seek to destroy my faith so that the wealth I am bestowed will be shared among them. This sound ridiculous, but it is truly happening in my family !

[狮子王]

BJ, Why you so KuNiang ?

1. Your dad & your mom brought you to this world & gave you life. Right?
2. You can hate your dad & distance the other side of the siblings when your dad is around. I won't comment or argue as it's your feeling & your choice
3. When your dad pass away, his body will decay and his soul doesn't exist anymore. Whatever hatred you have against him should be forgiven & forgotten.
4. Ask yourself this question, if other relatives or friends pass away, do you ask what type of funeral before you attend the wake? You will still attend right ? So which religion funeral shouldn't be a subject of discussion. It's his funerals not yours.

Remember this "万恶淫为首，百善孝为先 ". Your children will be watching how you handle the situation.
Don't let the same happen to you when you need to go one day.

It is not as simple as being Kuniang or as it appears.

It is called the War of Family Wealth. It is a method by which they want me to show disregard for my Most High.

Since when I was an undergraduate, a group of family relatives had stiolen my "8 characters" and used it to steal my wealth that I rightly belong.

They tried all means to kick me out of the director's board, foil my listing plans, and many many unseen acts to sabotage me simply because my "8 characters" is very special.

At first I do not believe in such things. But later in life, I have seen with my very own eyes the acts of these people engaging the fallen angels.