Botannia (D5, 956 yr, CDL / Capitaland)

[PropertiesHunter]

For every condo, there are plus and minus points about it. To be objective, let me highlight the minu points too:

1) Too far in and inconvenient

2) Most expensive among those ard it

3) There are private houses along the road to the condo and as you know, some like to park their cars outside their houses (as they own more than one car). The roads are narrow and imagine the traffic jam you suffer every morning and evening with so many units of condos at that location.

Thank you for the feedback on this, as I may defer from your view but it make me reconsider to BUY Botannia of minus pts. The rest of the condos there I will give a miss too.

[novel]

For every condo, there are plus and minus points about it. To be objective, let me highlight the minu points too:

1) Too far in and inconvenient

2) Most expensive among those ard it

3) There are private houses along the road to the condo and as you know, some like to park their cars outside their houses (as they own more than one car). The roads are narrow and imagine the traffic jam you suffer every morning and evening with so many units of condos at that location.

But the recent transactions shows the prices dropping to below 700psf, even cheaper than Carabelle, hence it is not the most expensive among those around it considering the development is the biggest.

If I can find good bargain in this condo, I will grab it faster than Carabelle for sure.

[proud owner]

But the recent transactions shows the prices dropping to below 700psf, even cheaper than Carabelle, hence it is not the most expensive among those around it considering the development is the biggest.

If I can find good bargain in this condo, I will grab it faster than Carabelle for sure.

in my opinion ..from Clementi road to west coast park ..the most expensive is Varsity park and clementiwoods ,.. look at the past transactions and asking price ... its very expensive ... and sellers seem to forgotten that they are lease hold ...

[apple3]

in my opinion ..from Clementi road to west coast park ..the most expensive is Varsity park and clementiwoods ,.. look at the past transactions and asking price ... its very expensive ... and sellers seem to forgotten that they are lease hold ...

hey proud, if there is a nomination of "Most Stood By FH Forumer", I bound to vote you in.

While I do agree your perspective of FH advantage in general, I can't say the same for your point on LH. This post of mine apply to all your postings all over the forum.

There are always case of better capital appreciation in LH. Like a 600psf LH sold at 750psf where else a 750psf FH sold at 850psf over the same period. It boil down to $ and ultimately, the objective; investment, dweller, or whatever wait and see attitude..etc. There are no such thing as a FH is better than LH or vice versa, it 2 different things.

In short; your "right" on FH do not equal to a "wrong" in LH.

[proud owner]

hey proud, if there is a nomination of "Most Stood By FH Forumer", I bound to vote you in.

While I do agree your perspective of FH advantage in general, I can't say the same for your point on LH. This post of mine apply to all your postings all over the forum.

There are always case of better capital appreciation in LH. Like a 600psf LH sold at 750psf where else a 750psf FH sold at 850psf over the same period. It boil down to $ and ultimately, the objective; investment, dweller, or whatever wait and see attitude..etc. There are no such thing as a FH is better than LH or vice versa, it 2 different things.

In short; your "right" on FH do not equal to a "wrong" in LH.

hahaha

thanks for the Title ..

many years back i bought WIndermere at Yew Tee ...then Yew Mei green was launched , at a higher price ...

when it came time to sell ... YEw MEi owners was asking for much higher price , and agents said becos it was launched high, owners bought high, so they sell high ...

so i wonder where are those agents now ..when Varsity park was launch much much lower than the FH in the same area .. and YET they are selling NOT much lower , than the FH ...why ?

what happen to the buy low sell low theory from those agents ?

cant help but feel agents are the least trust-able people ...

[stalingrad]

I agree that in general FH is better than LH, but let me point out there are a lot of lousy FH condos in the pasir Panjang area. Spectrum, the stellar, foliage, Maylea, Estiva....

All of these FH condos feature a tiny land area, and serious air quality and noise problems. At roughly same prices, I would rather stay in Varsity Park, which features a huge land area. Indeed, I said a lot of bad things about Varsity Park, but it is still a better condo than the stellar.

[proud owner]

I agree that in general FH is better than LH, but let me point out there are a lot of lousy FH condos in the pasir Panjang area. Spectrum, the stellar, foliage, Maylea, Estiva....

All of these FH condos feature a tiny land area, and serious air quality and noise problems. At roughly same prices, I would rather stay in Varsity Park, which features a huge land area. Indeed, I said a lot of bad things about Varsity Park, but it is still a better condo than the stellar.

so if theres just VP and Stellar left ..and you have to choose one ..
you would still pay about same price for VP ??

what i am saying is that .. they are at almost the same location ..and yet its almost same price .. i still dont see the logic ..especially between VP and Stellar

[stalingrad]

so if theres just VP and Stellar left ..and you have to choose one ..
you would still pay about same price for VP ??

what i am saying is that .. they are at almost the same location ..and yet its almost same price .. i still dont see the logic ..especially between VP and Stellar

No, I would not pay one dime more for the stellar. It is such a tiny estate, with nothing but pool water in the middle. Even if I am a swimmer, I would find staying in the stellar very boring, not to mention non-swimmers. but if I want to take a walk, where can I go? the moment I am out of the estate, I am surrounded by rigs, lorries, semi-trailiers, blowing their horns and spewing toxic exahust at me. basically, the stellar is an island surrounded by a sea of noise and pollution. now take a look at the inside of the condo, the blocks are so closely packed together. there is no privacy. I can see your wife taking a shower if I really wanted to.

VP is better. You get more space to roam to relax, and to explore. You don't worry about falling into a pool and drown. there is more privay, with greater distances between blocks. Noise wise, it is also better than the stellar.

I would say the fair price for VP is 550psf, and for stellar 500psf.

[proud owner]

No, I would not pay one dime more for the stellar. It is such a tiny estate, with nothing but pool water in the middle. Even if I am a swimmer, I would find staying in the stellar very boring, not to mention non-swimmers. but if I want to take a walk, where can I go? the moment I am out of the estate, I am surrounded by rigs, lorries, semi-trailiers, blowing their horns and spewing toxic exahust at me. basically, the stellar is an island surrounded by a sea of noise and pollution. now take a look at the inside of the condo, the blocks are so closely packed together. there is no privacy. I can see your wife taking a shower if I really wanted to.

VP is better. You get more space to roam to relax, and to explore. You don't worry about falling into a pool and drown. there is more privay, with greater distances between blocks. Noise wise, it is also better than the stellar.

I would say the fair price for VP is 550psf, and for stellar 500psf.

ahahha ok

i will bear this mind ...

on the same note .. now that enbloc is off ..

will 99 yr Horizon tower worth 880 psf compared to its 1200 ish psf FH neighbour in Leonie hill area ?

[Tweety]

No, I would not pay one dime more for the stellar. It is such a tiny estate, with nothing but pool water in the middle. Even if I am a swimmer, I would find staying in the stellar very boring, not to mention non-swimmers. but if I want to take a walk, where can I go? the moment I am out of the estate, I am surrounded by rigs, lorries, semi-trailiers, blowing their horns and spewing toxic exahust at me. basically, the stellar is an island surrounded by a sea of noise and pollution. now take a look at the inside of the condo, the blocks are so closely packed together. there is no privacy. I can see your wife taking a shower if I really wanted to.

VP is better. You get more space to roam to relax, and to explore. You don't worry about falling into a pool and drown. there is more privay, with greater distances between blocks. Noise wise, it is also better than the stellar.

I would say the fair price for VP is 550psf, and for stellar 500psf.

You can continue with your day dream of these prices for VP and Stellar. Should that happen, your Carabelle will only be worth less than 400psf. Stop harping on the size of Stellar or the other smaller sized condos at Pasir Pangjang Road...No doubt you have a bigger space but dun forget that you have to share with more than 300 over units over your external plot of land so chances are you will have to rub shoulder with your neighbours more often than ever when you step out of your house. Just one tennis court for 338 residents huh??

As for the pollution issues that you have mentioned, they do exist for sure in the west side of Singapore but certainly not to the extent that you have mentioned from time to time. It is an irony when you mentioned that especially when you will be located next to the highway where traffice volume will be thrice as heavy as those along Pasir Panjang Road. I see more lorries, buses and yes, massive traffic jams caused by accidents along the AYE so it seems that your children will not be killed by these pollution as you have mentioned earlier, right?

You can really see others' wives taking a shower if you wish to huh? You must have possessed x-ray eyes!!

[stalingrad]

the main source of noise and pollution for the stellar is not pasir panjang road, which does not adjoin the stellar. It is clementi road, which is right next to the stellar, and witnesses more traffic than AYE. Besides, carabelle is more than 100 meters away from AYE, and is shielded from AYE by the infiniti. Our unit at Carabelle is very quiet. While I am unsure about pollution, which is invisible, judging by the distance from our unit to AYE, we are very confident our boys will grow up with healthy lungs. thank you for your concern.

btw, life is too short to jump and scream whenever someone makes comments about your beloved condo. If you'd paid attention, you would've noticed that I was asked by proud owner to make comments about VP and the stellar. It is not like I took a pot shot at your lousy condo out of malice.

[proud owner]

yes i did ask

but my question is ..WHY WOULD YOU PAY HIGHER FOR 99 yr than a FH ..when they are next to each other ?

in your opinion VP is better .. but as a buyer wouldnt you at worst pay same as a FH and not more ?

your reply was that you would pay more ... and thats puzzling ..

considering that you have so many theories as to why stellar is less desirable to VP, and your knowledge of property mkt and yet you value it higher ???

base on your reasons...if Stellar is worth 500 psf then i would bargain for VP to 400 psf as they are next to each other and it is 99 yr ..

[stalingrad]

yes i did ask

but my question is ..WHY WOULD YOU PAY HIGHER FOR 99 yr than a FH ..when they are next to each other ?

in your opinion VP is better .. but as a buyer wouldnt you at worst pay same as a FH and not more ?

your reply was that you would pay more ... and thats puzzling ..

considering that you have so many theories as to why stellar is less desirable to VP, and your knowledge of property mkt and yet you value it higher ???

base on your reasons...if Stellar is worth 500 psf then i would bargain for VP to 400 psf as they are next to each other and it is 99 yr ..

You don't understand my point. the value of a condo depends on many things, not just FH vs. LH. If the stellar is the same as VP in every other aspect, yes, stellar should command a higher price than VP. But VP is superior to the stellar, in quality of life, estate size and privacy, etc. and these other factors trump FH vs. LH in determining the value of a condo. that is why I value the stellar lower than VP. My opinion is just that, mine, of course. but I believe that the stellar will not have lot of appreciation potential, given its limitations.

[cheerful]

I think there is another thread which was posted by someone who wish to learn more about FH vs. LH.

May I ask the experienced bros & sis to enlighten if any difference between FH & LH999 please?

As for FH vs. LH99, I personally prefer FH ... LH99 really has to have a v good location to give that kinda of pricing advantages ...

[proud owner]

You don't understand my point. the value of a condo depends on many things, not just FH vs. LH. If the stellar is the same as VP in every other aspect, yes, stellar should command a higher price than VP. But VP is superior to the stellar, in quality of life, estate size and privacy, etc. and these other factors trump FH vs. LH in determining the value of a condo. that is why I value the stellar lower than VP. My opinion is just that, mine, of course. but I believe that the stellar will not have lot of appreciation potential, given its limitations.

if Stellar is really reallu that bad ..wouldnt you use the fact that it is FH to counter VP and buy your favored VP at lower price ??

and it is even more puzzling that now from Stellar to Botannia ...all the FH and LH in between ... Stellar just registered 788 and 795 psf in the latest caveat ...

[Tweety]

the main source of noise and pollution for the stellar is not pasir panjang road, which does not adjoin the stellar. It is clementi road, which is right next to the stellar, and witnesses more traffic than AYE. Besides, carabelle is more than 100 meters away from AYE, and is shielded from AYE by the infiniti. Our unit at Carabelle is very quiet. While I am unsure about pollution, which is invisible, judging by the distance from our unit to AYE, we are very confident our boys will grow up with healthy lungs. thank you for your concern.

btw, life is too short to jump and scream whenever someone makes comments about your beloved condo. If you'd paid attention, you would've noticed that I was asked by proud owner to make comments about VP and the stellar. It is not like I took a pot shot at your lousy condo out of malice.

I have been driving along the entire stretch of AYE over the last 5 years and I can't believe that you can claim that Clementi Road is heavier than AYE...Facts do not lie. I won't jump or scream like what you have written cos facts is after all facts. I won't deny that the units in Stellar are small but some of your comments are just over the hill most of the time which is unjustifiable and unobjective. By the way, I have seen the layout of Carabelle. It is only partially shielded by Infiniti...Welcome to the world of air and noise pollution since you are so concerned by this subject....

[stalingrad]

I have been driving along the entire stretch of AYE over the last 5 years and I can't believe that you can claim that Clementi Road is heavier than AYE...Facts do not lie. I won't jump or scream like what you have written cos facts is after all facts. I won't deny that the units in Stellar are small but some of your comments are just over the hill most of the time which is unjustifiable and unobjective. By the way, I have seen the layout of Carabelle. It is only partially shielded by Infiniti...Welcome to the world of air and noise pollution since you are so concerned by this subject....

vehicles along AYE move every second, unlike those along clementi road, which stop frequently at traffic lights to spew carcinogens and whatnot into the air. the stellar is located at the worst spot possible, a four way junction, which means every second there are vehicles parked at your door step spewing diesel fume into your estate.

Don't forget the container port just a little distance away, which is another source of diesel fume. Don't forget also the yet to be built flyrover, which will really make life at the stellar miserable. the problems go on and on. I am too lazy to list all of them here.

[stalingrad]

The Land Transport Authority has awarded the contract to Samwoh Corporation Pte Ltd.

The contract, worth $57.5 million, involves the upgrading of the junction of West Coast Highway and Clementi Road where a dual three-lane flyover will be constructed.

With the new flyover, motorists on West Coast Highway will be able to bypass the traffic light junction as they head towards Jurong Town Hall Road or the city.

The contract also includes the construction of two sheltered pedestrian overhead bridges along West Coast Highway near Shibuya Makuhari Senior High School and Singapore Bible Baptist Church. The pedestrian overhead bridges serve to help residents cross West Coast Highway to West Coast Park safely.

Works will be commencing and are scheduled to be completed by the third quarter of 2011.
Map [174 Kb] Last Updated: 19 February 2009

[proud owner]

I have been driving along the entire stretch of AYE over the last 5 years and I can't believe that you can claim that Clementi Road is heavier than AYE...Facts do not lie. I won't jump or scream like what you have written cos facts is after all facts. I won't deny that the units in Stellar are small but some of your comments are just over the hill most of the time which is unjustifiable and unobjective. By the way, I have seen the layout of Carabelle. It is only partially shielded by Infiniti...Welcome to the world of air and noise pollution since you are so concerned by this subject....

i agree with many that each project has its good and bad theres no perfect condo ..maybe there is but i dont know any ..

i have been to all 3 (FH only) botannia, carabelle, Stellar..

i ddint feel that it was noisy in all 3 .. just that i feel botannia and carabelle is too deep in .. actually feel stellar's location has its advantage .. you can basically go any direction you like ...

and i guess to those who have children in NUS or Ngee Ann or Spore poly .. stellar is perfect ..

to those who has small kids ..then to the primary school (not sure the name) Carabelle and Botannia are better ..

my personal agent friend .. has more expats asking for Stellar than the other 2 ... while more locals asking for the other 2 than Stellar ..

i personally have been to the inside of stellar and i have a friend with a PH there .. i didnt feel it was noisy at all ..be it day or night, weekday or weekend ...

perhaps its becos he has an inner block with pool view .. in fact i recalled it was actually breezy both in the day and night .. and walking dist to 7-11 and prata was what we did after that BBQ and playing poker indoor till late .. i actually find it extremely convenient ..and i ahve tried back and forth to raffles place ..its only 10 mins and at night 6 mins ..

i am comtemplating looking for a unit there ..thats why i have been monitoring it and asking for opinions ..

[proud owner]

The Land Transport Authority has awarded the contract to Samwoh Corporation Pte Ltd.

The contract, worth $57.5 million, involves the upgrading of the junction of West Coast Highway and Clementi Road where a dual three-lane flyover will be constructed.

With the new flyover, motorists on West Coast Highway will be able to bypass the traffic light junction as they head towards Jurong Town Hall Road or the city.

The contract also includes the construction of two sheltered pedestrian overhead bridges along West Coast Highway near Shibuya Makuhari Senior High School and Singapore Bible Baptist Church. The pedestrian overhead bridges serve to help residents cross West Coast Highway to West Coast Park safely.

Works will be commencing and are scheduled to be completed by the third quarter of 2011.
Map [174 Kb] Last Updated: 19 February 2009

yes i have heard about it ... and have reservation as well

and thanks to your update .. the map shows the flyover as ALONG west coast highway ... and not clementi rd ..

initially i was concerned that the flyover was towards clementi .. now i am happy ... Spectrum will be hit ...

[stalingrad]

i agree with many that each project has its good and bad theres no perfect condo ..maybe there is but i dont know any ..

i have been to all 3 (FH only) botannia, carabelle, Stellar..

i ddint feel that it was noisy in all 3 .. just that i feel botannia and carabelle is too deep in .. actually feel stellar's location has its advantage .. you can basically go any direction you like ...

and i guess to those who have children in NUS or Ngee Ann or Spore poly .. stellar is perfect ..

to those who has small kids ..then to the primary school (not sure the name) Carabelle and Botannia are better ..

my personal agent friend .. has more expats asking for Stellar than the other 2 ... while more locals asking for the other 2 than Stellar ..

i personally have been to the inside of stellar and i have a friend with a PH there .. i didnt feel it was noisy at all ..be it day or night, weekday or weekend ...

perhaps its becos he has an inner block with pool view .. in fact i recalled it was actually breezy both in the day and night .. and walking dist to 7-11 and prata was what we did after that BBQ and playing poker indoor till late .. i actually find it extremely convenient ..and i ahve tried back and forth to raffles place ..its only 10 mins and at night 6 mins ..

i am comtemplating looking for a unit there ..thats why i have been monitoring it and asking for opinions ..

don't buy if you are smart. the flyover will kill all the fun for you. carabelle and botannia has the new jurong business district as their selling points. My kid can either go to canadian school or nanhua primary from carabelle. We will try nanhua first, and if we don't get into, we will try clementi primary, which is also less than 1km from carabelle. if we fail to get in either, we will put him in canadian school in jurong east.

[Tweety]

vehicles along AYE move every second, unlike those along clementi road, which stop frequently at traffic lights to spew carcinogens and whatnot into the air. the stellar is located at the worst spot possible, a four way junction, which means every second there are vehicles parked at your door step spewing diesel fume into your estate.

Don't forget the container port just a little distance away, which is another source of diesel fume. Don't forget also the yet to be built flyrover, which will really make life at the stellar miserable. the problems go on and on. I am too lazy to list all of them here.

The proposed flyover is not anywhere near Clementi Road as you have pointed out....Life at The Stellar is miserable??....None of the residents will comment that from the bottom of their heart. You may perceive that it is polluted with noise or dirt but that is only your own perception. As Proud Owner has rightly pointed out, it is no where as noisy or polluted as you perceive it to be. Remember, it is your own perception and I must say again that facts dun lie cos you can always step in there and experience for yourself if you are still living in your own world of fantasy.

[stalingrad]

yes i have heard about it ... and have reservation as well

and thanks to your update .. the map shows the flyover as ALONG west coast highway ... and not clementi rd ..

initially i was concerned that the flyover was towards clementi .. now i am happy ... Spectrum will be hit ...

both spectrum and the stellar will be hit, because noise is now hitting you from 20 meters above ground if you are in the stellar, and it will be very loud.

[stalingrad]

The proposed flyover is not anywhere near Clementi Road as you have pointed out....Life at The Stellar is miserable??....None of the residents will comment that from the bottom of their heart. You may perceive that it is polluted with noise or dirt but that is only your own perception. As Proud Owner has rightly pointed out, it is no where as noisy or polluted as you perceive it to be. Remember, it is your own perception and I must say again that facts dun lie cos you can always step in there and experience for yourself if you are still living in your own world of fantasy.

tweety, I have no malice toward you. look at the map. Are you sure that you will not get hit by a lot of noise from the elevated flyover? When vehicles go up the flyover, the gun their engines, making loud noise. besides, the noise now is not from the ground level, it is from 10 meters above that. It will be very very loud.

If i were you, I would sell before the world knows about this flyover.

[Tweety]

tweety, I have no malice toward you. look at the map. Are you sure that you will not get hit by a lot of noise from the elevated flyover? When vehicles go up the flyover, the gun their engines, making loud noise. besides, the noise now is not from the ground level, it is from 10 meters above that. It will be very very loud.

If i were you, I would sell before the world knows about this flyover.

Good try but I would not want to sell even if the flyover is built next to Clementi Road. The proposed flyover will still be some distance away from The Stellar so dun exaggerate the facts about the noise and air factors. It is anytime better than to live next to the AYE for sure.

[stalingrad]

Good try but I would not want to sell even if the flyover is built next to Clementi Road. The proposed flyover will still be some distance away from The Stellar so dun exaggerate the facts about the noise and air factors. It is anytime better than to live next to the AYE for sure.

fine, it is your decision, and you live with it. but are you sure the flyover will not be turned into a four way flyover one day, and extend into clementi road? with the new flyover, the rigs and semi-trailers will still have to stop at the traffic light at the junction of clementi road and west coast road. to solve that problem, the government may turn this two way flyover into a four way flyover.

[stalingrad]

The Pasir Panjang terminal, the subject of the latest expansion plan, is already doubling its number of berths over the next two years under an initial development project known as Phases 1 and 2.

PSA Singapore Terminals, the terminal's operator, is building 13 berths at Pasir Panjang under the first two phases to bring the total to 26 berths.

The company has spent $5 billion over the past 10 years on the terminal's two development phases. When these are completed in 2009, it expects the annual container handling capacity across its four terminals here to hit 35 million boxes that year.

'PSA Singapore Terminals continues to experience strong growth in its container volumes and we expect to handle 27 million TEUs this year,' said a PSA spokesman. 'We have already fast-tracked our development of Pasir Panjang Terminal Phase 2. The development of Phases 3 and 4 is therefore timely.'

Jurong Port, which runs a much smaller operation, is also beefing up capacity, upgrading quay cranes and extending the length of its five berths, said a spokesman.

The latest expansion plan for Pasir Panjang will have a total quay length of 6km, adding to the current total of 14.2km across all 49 container berths islandwide.

[Tweety]

fine, it is your decision, and you live with it. but are you sure the flyover will not be turned into a four way flyover one day, and extend into clementi road? with the new flyover, the rigs and semi-trailers will still have to stop at the traffic light at the junction of clementi road and west coast road. to solve that problem, the government may turn this two way flyover into a four way flyover.

Nobody knows what will happen tomorrow and it is no point speculating...Are you 100% sure if you will ever live past today? Do you know if they will bury the dead near your area since your roof top is shaped like a tomb when view from the top? Of course we can't tell what is going to happen tomorrow so why speculate? As far as I know, if I want to live in an area free of noise or pollution, I will never choose to live here or next to the AYE, I will migrate to the mountains instead!

[proud owner]

Good try but I would not want to sell even if the flyover is built next to Clementi Road. The proposed flyover will still be some distance away from The Stellar so dun exaggerate the facts about the noise and air factors. It is anytime better than to live next to the AYE for sure.

i dont know but i think if the noise gets too unbearable ... with NUS being there ... i am sure govt/LTA will ensure its not going to be that bad

[stalingrad]

i dont know but i think if the noise gets too unbearable ... with NUS being there ... i am sure govt/LTA will ensure its not going to be that bad

what does NUS have to do with anything. NUS is not next to west coast highway. The stellar is.

go ahead, put your money where your mouth is. buy the stellar, and see if you will make money or enjoy your life at the stellar.