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Thread: Some tough decisions await HDB upgraders

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    Default Some tough decisions await HDB upgraders


    Private condominiums and HDB flats in the eastern part of Singapore. The vacancy rate in the first quarter for completed units in the eastern region almost doubled, from 3.4 per cent to 6.1 per cent. -- ST FILE PHOTO

    Many will be caught between flat resale and sub-par rental markets

    FOR a health check of the private residential market, an investor needed only to check out the sales at an upmarket condo project in Ang Mo Kio when it was relaunched recently.

    The developer attracted scores of buyers in a flat market - but only after slashing prices by 12 per cent.

    The discounting lends credence to the forecasts made by some property analysts that private residential prices may fall by between 10 and 15 per cent over the next two years.

    There are a range of issues feeding into this narrative, from both the supply and demand sides of the equation.
    - See more at: http://www.straitstimes.com/news/sin....TKQHaEBi.dpuf

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    xebay11 is offline New Launch Project Specialist
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    See Ringo was right, the East is only good for own stay, rental is bad.

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    In summary. .

    The ones affected the worst are the hdb upgraders plus the old folks trying to rent out their units in order to get some income...

    So I guess this is the out come the government wants by concentrating building in the ocr areas...

    Tripple whammy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xebay11 View Post
    See Ringo was right, the East is only good for own stay, rental is bad.
    Not true...it was because govt decides to concentrate building in the eastern and north eastern areas.

    If they decide to concentrate in the north or west also the same thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yl View Post
    Not true...it was because govt decides to concentrate building in the eastern and north eastern areas.

    If they decide to concentrate in the north or west also the same thing.
    There are zoning restrictions in the west, thankfully.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hyenergix View Post
    There are zoning restrictions in the west, thankfully.
    The ministers helming the tampines. .pasir punggol grc...where the most hdb upgraders reside ..how will their votes be affected?

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    Quote Originally Posted by yl View Post
    Not true...it was because govt decides to concentrate building in the eastern and north eastern areas.

    If they decide to concentrate in the north or west also the same thing.
    I don't think so... Too little industries or business park in the east, north...

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    Quote Originally Posted by xebay11 View Post
    See Ringo was right, the East is only good for own stay, rental is bad.
    c'mon, can't you display more sense than this?! using 1 article to over-generalize a conclusion....

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    Supply/demand will determine all of these, so most likely is oversupply in 2-3 years time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockstone View Post
    Supply/demand will determine all of these, so most likely is oversupply in 2-3 years time.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvYOxEkxYd4


    You means the supply and demand in China.

    They can have a number of ghost city, Singapore supply is still far from oversupply.

    BTO - Build to order, no order no build how to oversupply
    Last edited by Arcachon; 02-06-14 at 17:11.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvYOxEkxYd4


    You means the supply and demand in China.

    They can have a number of ghost city, Singapore supply is still far from oversupply.
    Come-on, China so big.. What always like to take all those ulu ulu city and say china property bubble... U go SHANGHAI, BEIJING, GUANGZHOU and see lah.. where got bubble... Price still going up...

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    Quote Originally Posted by RCT View Post
    Come-on, China so big.. What always like to take all those ulu ulu city and say china property bubble... U go SHANGHAI, BEIJING, GUANGZHOU and see lah.. where got bubble... Price still going up...
    Same problem of 贫富差距.... this is no easy job.. more complex than the property issue...
    A bottle of Lafite '82 for all my coffeeshop friends yesterday...many don't know what is it....haha...

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    Quote Originally Posted by yl View Post
    The ministers helming the tampines. .pasir punggol grc...where the most hdb upgraders reside ..how will their votes be affected?
    Minister job is not to make sure you make money from your hdb or private property investments lah. You decide to buy property than hold hdb than you better be damn well prepared prices could fall. That should have been factored into your financial calculations.

    If you re scared hdb prices will drop than should sell first and rent while waiting for private property to complete. Why than are these people still holding? Because back than hdb prices were rising like nobody s business and everyone think hold longer by the time my private property top I sell hdb than huat already. Now suddenly drop all panic try to sell. One word. GREED.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mosaic View Post
    Minister job is not to make sure you make money from your hdb or private property investments lah. You decide to buy property than hold hdb than you better be damn well prepared prices could fall. That should have been factored into your financial calculations.

    If you re scared hdb prices will drop than should sell first and rent while waiting for private property to complete. Why than are these people still holding? Because back than hdb prices were rising like nobody s business and everyone think hold longer by the time my private property top I sell hdb than huat already. Now suddenly drop all panic try to sell. One word. GREED.
    I think you just made an inaccurate assumption that I will be affected.

    Errr...Why would I be affected?

    I am just speculating how the hdb upgraders in these areas will react. And from your reply, you just validated that people's natural knee jerk reaction will be.

    Of course they will be upset. And then goes back to my original question, do you think they will be happy with the government?

    Or they will think like you...my fault for holding out? Or WTH did the government choose to build n build n build AND build in these 3 areas and nowhere else?!

    And from coming me...I wonder if the government factored all these -ve consequences in...coz the end of the day..it is the heartlanders who are affected...paying more and suffer more.

    Not the rich (like you???) or the damn filthy rich.

    Coz I am sure they will think rich people speculated until the prices goes up and up...and end of the day they suffered the most.

    And I would like to stress that most hdb upgraders are uncles, aunties, who dont surf forums like this, nor are they equipped with the knowledge of the property cycle. Perhaps all they know is that people kept saying price willl drop but didn't for the last few years..I am sure they save very loooong time before deciding to upgrade.
    Last edited by yl; 02-06-14 at 22:27.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yl View Post
    I think you just made an inaccurate assumption that I will be affected.

    Errr...Why would I be affected?

    I am just speculating how the hdb upgraders in these areas will react. And from your reply, you just validated that people's natural knee jerk reaction will be.

    Of course they will be upset. And then goes back to my original question, do you think they will be happy with the government?

    Or they will think like you...my fault for holding out? Or WTH did the government choose to build n build n build AND build in these 3 areas and nowhere else?!

    And from coming me...I wonder if the government factored all these -ve consequences in...coz the end of the day..it is the heartlanders who are affected...paying more and suffer more.

    Not the rich (like you???) or the damn filthy rich.

    Coz I am sure they will think rich people speculated until the prices goes up and up...and end of the day they suffered the most.

    And I would like to stress that most hdb upgraders are uncles, aunties, who dont surf forums like this, nor are they equipped with the knowledge of the property cycle. Perhaps all they know is that people kept saying price willl drop but didn't for the last few years..I am sure they save very loooong time before deciding to upgrade.
    Sorry, TOO BAD for these people. Want to invest better be prepared for losses.

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    The property will only affected those who have more than 1 ppty... If you only have one and it is for home stay. The up and down are just figures for u with no meaning at all.. If now HDB down means private also down. If u sell low, u will buy low at the same time.

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    We need the govt to increase our population to more than 7m perhaps...and increase of gst to 10%...then property price will move up...

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    Quote Originally Posted by pmet View Post
    Sorry, TOO BAD for these people. Want to invest better be prepared for losses.
    They are hdb upgrades...not investors. that's what the whole article is about. The normal hdb mum n pops...or even old folks..who unlike you!!..who have access to Internet at your fingertips..

    It's exactly these kind of people who have such elitist thinking too bad for these average income people...let our higher income investment savvy people huat..totally unsympathetic that is why our country deteriorate to such state!...not sympathetic to these older more vulnerable folks !

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    To summarize some felt the hdb ordinary upgraders deserved it. Some felt the ministers are not there to help make money for the investors. .

    But i m not surprised none mentioned the plight of genuine poor folks who rent out rooms or the entire flat just to irk a small living..to help make their unbearable life bearable.

    N they mostly reside in these far east, North east n north places...

    I assume you have never seen this side of the impact. .or grow up in such environment.

    our minister have missed them out again. Isnt it our Minister job to at least make sure these vulnerable people are not adversely affected? Most of them old grannies who spent their lives take care if their children..n if their children didnt break the vicious property cycle..they have to fend for themselves. .I m sure they do not have forums facebooks tp vent their frustration!

    By mass building the ocrs with so many hdb n condo clearly upsetting the delicate balance. .

    That's why I have my doubts that people with privileged background should serve as ministers .such myopic views ..never accessed how their policies will impact the vulnerable folks.

    Last edited by Yuki; 03-06-14 at 07:51.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki View Post
    .....
    That's why I have my doubts that people with privileged background should serve as ministers .such myopic views ..never accessed how their policies will impact the vulnerable folks..
    quite a few of our ministers have ordinary backgrounds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pmet View Post
    Sorry, TOO BAD for these people. Want to invest better be prepared for losses.
    Those who are selling HDB now won't really lose money because they bought the HDBs years ago. The only thing is they may gain more if they sold last year.

    Those who just bought HDB last year cannot sell yet. Who knows if the HDB price will be higher or lower several years later.

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    teddybear is offline Global recession is coming....
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    Unfortunately, the sad truth is all those TDSR, ABSD (directly and indirectly) hit these average income people the most!
    E.g., now many foreigners and PRs, to avoid paying so much ABSD, prefer to buy cheaper absolute quantum condo in heartland OCR, and smaller size units, jacking up the prices of these heartland condos by a lot and competing to buy with these heartland folks!!!!!!!!!!!!! Think, otherwise you will ever hear OCR condo transact at $1750 psf?

    Quote Originally Posted by di View Post
    They are hdb upgrades...not investors. that's what the whole article is about. The normal hdb mum n pops...or even old folks..who unlike you!!..who have access to Internet at your fingertips..

    It's exactly these kind of people who have such elitist thinking too bad for these average income people...let our higher income investment savvy people huat..totally unsympathetic that is why our country deteriorate to such state!...not sympathetic to these older more vulnerable folks !

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    TDSR is to ensure you don't burst your income. I think it is a good measure.
    ABSD is claimable if you sell your house.

    And why do you think we have such measures? It is because Singaporeans are complaining about high prices and here come the measures

    Anyway, the Government can only cater for the majority - provide cheap HDB and let you earn a few hundred k after 5 years. I think that is good enough. If you want private, you got to think of ways.



    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    Unfortunately, the sad truth is all those TDSR, ABSD (directly and indirectly) hit these average income people the most!
    E.g., now many foreigners and PRs, to avoid paying so much ABSD, prefer to buy cheaper absolute quantum condo in heartland OCR, and smaller size units, jacking up the prices of these heartland condos by a lot and competing to buy with these heartland folks!!!!!!!!!!!!! Think, otherwise you will ever hear OCR condo transact at $1750 psf?

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    I thought singaporeans are asking foreigners to go away and asking for property prices to drop. So the Government has done a great job isn't it? Rental is dropping and property prices are dropping. You get what you asked for?



    Quote Originally Posted by di View Post
    They are hdb upgrades...not investors. that's what the whole article is about. The normal hdb mum n pops...or even old folks..who unlike you!!..who have access to Internet at your fingertips..

    It's exactly these kind of people who have such elitist thinking too bad for these average income people...let our higher income investment savvy people huat..totally unsympathetic that is why our country deteriorate to such state!...not sympathetic to these older more vulnerable folks !

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    Quote Originally Posted by yl View Post
    I think you just made an inaccurate assumption that I will be affected.

    Errr...Why would I be affected?

    I am just speculating how the hdb upgraders in these areas will react. And from your reply, you just validated that people's natural knee jerk reaction will be.

    Of course they will be upset. And then goes back to my original question, do you think they will be happy with the government?

    Or they will think like you...my fault for holding out? Or WTH did the government choose to build n build n build AND build in these 3 areas and nowhere else?!

    And from coming me...I wonder if the government factored all these -ve consequences in...coz the end of the day..it is the heartlanders who are affected...paying more and suffer more.

    Not the rich (like you???) or the damn filthy rich.

    Coz I am sure they will think rich people speculated until the prices goes up and up...and end of the day they suffered the most.

    And I would like to stress that most hdb upgraders are uncles, aunties, who dont surf forums like this, nor are they equipped with the knowledge of the property cycle. Perhaps all they know is that people kept saying price willl drop but didn't for the last few years..I am sure they save very loooong time before deciding to upgrade.
    nope I didn t assume you were one of them. The term you was used in general to the upgraders. Let me use another term than.

    Very simply, people who have no financial capability to should not upgrade from HDB to private. Private property is not meant for the masses. That is the hard fact of life. No money don t act like you have. Very very simple

    The problem is everyone wants to own private property, but it is not practically possible. HDB upgraders think that just because they made 100k-200k in profits (enough to pay for downpayment) they can upgrade to private property without due considerations on whether their income can support for the long run, whether they have enough financial buffers etc.

    And let me tell you something, it is not the majority of your poor old uncles and aunties suffering (although I believe there are a number). I ve see many uncles and aunties with more money in their bank accounts than many people will have. That uncle or aunty who bought a condo is probably the uncle or aunty you see going down to singapore pools, or who buys a ton of fake jade coming back from china after a guided tour trip. So whether they lose it upgrading or elsewhere, well thats life.

    My office alone has dunno how many young people in their early 30s upgrading from HDBs to ECs and condos. And in fact alot borrow from parents to buy EC right at the start without going through the HDB route. That is the problem with people nowadays.

    By the way, i bought property in 2009. It was a personal investment decision. So if the markets tank some more should I vote the government out for not putting a floor price on property? What if I make a ton of money than how? vote the government back in?

    What the government is now doing is no different than many other countries trying to stem the flow of liquidity. What has happened in the US, japan, europe are all prime example of laissez faire economies in the past.
    Last edited by mosaic; 03-06-14 at 20:55.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mosaic View Post
    nope I didn t assume you were one of them. The term you was used in general to the upgraders. Let me use another term than.

    Very simply, people who have no financial capability to should not upgrade from HDB to private. Private property is not meant for the masses. That is the hard fact of life. No money don t act like you have. Very very simple
    .
    i will just zoom in on this part of your statement. i agree with you that private property ain't for the masses.

    however with the government jumping on the bandwagon through provision of ECs, don't you think it distorts the view on private property?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mosaic View Post
    nope I didn t assume you were one of them. The term you was used in general to the upgraders. Let me use another term than.

    Very simply, people who have no financial capability to should not upgrade from HDB to private. Private property is not meant for the masses. That is the hard fact of life. No money don t act like you have. Very very simple

    The problem is everyone wants to own private property, but it is not practically possible. HDB upgraders think that just because they made 100k-200k in profits (enough to pay for downpayment) they can upgrade to private property without due considerations on whether their income can support for the long run, whether they have enough financial buffers etc.

    And let me tell you something, it is not the majority of your poor old uncles and aunties suffering (although I believe there are a number). I ve see many uncles and aunties with more money in their bank accounts than many people will have. That uncle or aunty who bought a condo is probably the uncle or aunty you see going down to singapore pools, or who buys a ton of fake jade coming back from china after a guided tour trip. So whether they lose it upgrading or elsewhere, well thats life.

    My office alone has dunno how many young people in their early 30s upgrading from HDBs to ECs and condos. And in fact alot borrow from parents to buy EC right at the start without going through the HDB route. That is the problem with people nowadays.

    By the way, i bought property in 2009. It was a personal investment decision. So if the markets tank some more should I vote the government out for not putting a floor price on property? What if I make a ton of money than how? vote the government back in?

    What the government is now doing is no different than many other countries trying to stem the flow of liquidity. What has happened in the US, japan, europe are all prime example of laissez faire economies in the past.
    You are spot on. However government is also responsible because their auxiliary department URA has led the developers into bidding wars the cost of course transfer to the people you mentioned above. My office all my peers are having condos. Some just bought it recently. All of them are feeling good except me because I don't have a condo.

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    Garment can never satisfy everyone. Problem is everyone is thinking about themselves. It is good for the property market to take a breather for people to think what they really need and not want.
    Quote Originally Posted by thomastansb View Post
    I thought singaporeans are asking foreigners to go away and asking for property prices to drop. So the Government has done a great job isn't it? Rental is dropping and property prices are dropping. You get what you asked for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thomastansb View Post
    I thought singaporeans are asking foreigners to go away and asking for property prices to drop. So the Government has done a great job isn't it? Rental is dropping and property prices are dropping. You get what you asked for?
    Their wish come true!!!!
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