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Thread: Sold but still vacant: 'Dark' condos spotted across Singapore

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    Default Sold but still vacant: 'Dark' condos spotted across Singapore



    SINGAPORE - No official statistics are available on vacancy rates in individual completed condominium projects. But BT's lensmen put together a snapshot of "dark condos" in Singapore when they photographed a selection of projects between 8pm and 9.30pm on weekdays in the last week of May, before the start of the school holidays - and it's a telling picture.

    Nine of the 10 projects featured here were completed, that is, received Temporary Occupation Permit (TOP), between January and September last year. The 10th, Hilltops, was completed in 2011.

    While a rise in vacancies can be seen as overcapacity reflecting a ramp-up in completions since last year and fervent property investment demand post-global crisis, other factors may also be at play for specific projects.

    The 10 projects photographed are mostly in the Core Central Region, though a few are in city-fringe or suburban areas.

    While the developments have a fair proportion of dark, or apparently unoccupied, units, the degree varies, as do the likely causes.

    In a few cases, high vacancy is linked to low or even zero sales. In most cases, however, even where the condos had a high sales rate or were completely sold, there is sometimes noticeable vacancy.

    In some cases, this may be due to a substantial time lag - as long as eight months in one case - between the project's TOP date and the handover of units to buyers as developers continued to add the finishing touches to meet the expectations of well-heeled buyers.
    - See more at: http://business.asiaone.com/property....QciGiBDY.dpuf

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    "darkness" is a very unrealiable measurement of "vacancy".
    From my window, I can always see that the nearby condo is almost
    "dark" at night, however, I know it is popular and is at least 95% occuppied.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lionhill View Post
    "darkness" is a very unrealiable measurement of "vacancy".
    From my window, I can always see that the nearby condo is almost
    "dark" at night, however, I know it is popular and is at least 95% occuppied.
    agree too.
    its a very bad indicator of vacancies rates, in my district, its always dark at night, brightness again at late night eg 10 pm

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    spent all their money to buy condo no money to buy lights
    In the final analysis.....its NOT whether you have a diploma,degree,masters OR PHD....its whether you have a HDB/PC/EC or LANDED...

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    Quote Originally Posted by princess_morbucks View Post
    ........Absurd
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    Too many other explanations

    1. International travellers' backup homes

    2. Financial services worker OT
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

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    http://sbr.com.sg/residential-proper....bf3K12jL.dpuf

    Chart of the Day: See the massive spike in Singapore’s home vacancy rate



    Large oversupply looms over private developers.

    Analysts fear that the government’s efforts to scale down residential supply may not be enough to avert a looming oversupply in 2015 to 2017.

    A report by Barclays Research noted that the vacancy rate could hit 9.9% by 2016 assuming an annual demand of 15,500 units

    According to Barclays Research, “We believe this is testament to the looming oversupply in 2015-2017 as the government reiterated the reduced future supply will be ‘added to the existing large pipeline supply of more than 90,000 private residential units (including ECs)’.”

    Here’s more from Barclays:

    Private housing (including ECs) on the Confirmed List for 2H14 is down 15% h/h and 34% y/y to 3,915 units. The bulk of the supply is now made up by the Reserve List, which has also been scaled down and which is unlikely to be triggered for sale should market conditions continue to deteriorate.

    We maintain our negative stance on the Singapore residential sector as we see an oversupply of private housing properties and expect prices to fall 20% by 2015E in view of an expected interest rate rise, coinciding with peak supply, and think the vacancy rate could reach a record 10% by 2016E.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seletar View Post
    http://sbr.com.sg/residential-proper....bf3K12jL.dpuf



    We maintain our negative stance on the Singapore residential sector as we see an oversupply of private housing properties and expect prices to fall 20% by 2015E in view of an expected interest rate rise, coinciding with peak supply, and think the vacancy rate could reach a record 10% by 2016E.
    We are in mid 14 only, 10% -15% is already seen. Just imagine another 20% from now, this is very very negative news indeed.
    A bottle of Lafite '82 for all my coffeeshop friends yesterday...many don't know what is it....haha...

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    Quote Originally Posted by walkthetiger View Post
    We are in mid 14 only, 10% -15% is already seen. Just imagine another 20% from now, this is very very negative news indeed.
    I think all along isn't that what government hoped?

    That the private property prices will be lowered significantly? I.stopped short of saying crash...

    I never believed in soft landing... Coz if the investors started to panick... The sediments n behavior will be like stocks..suddenly everyone wants to sell.

    The government desperately need voters..in 2016. They perhaps assumed they lost votes to majority of those who hasn't gotten their first hdb yet. They can't lower the hdb prices just like that..they have to depress the price of private then made the effects tickled down to hdb resale?

    The upgraders not sure though..coz when the value of their hdb declined..the price to upgrade will be lesser if the price crashed to new low?

    Random thoughts.

    However if this is not their intended outcome.. Then my next question will be how come they build so many in the first place based on what statistics? Where did they get their number from?

    How many is based on geninue homeowners and how many investors?

    I posted a thread on the sums doesn’t add up in other section of this forum.

    If there are so many projects selling less than 50%...N most in ocr..this tells us oversupply or what?
    Last edited by Yuki; 15-06-14 at 11:40.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki View Post
    I think all along isn't that what government hoped?

    That the private property prices will be lowered significantly? I.stopped short of saying crash...

    I never believed in soft landing... Coz if the investors started to panick... The sediments n behavior will be like stocks..suddenly everyone wants to sell.

    The government desperately need voters..in 2016. They perhaps assumed they lost votes to majority of those who hasn't gotten their first hdb yet. They can't lower the hdb prices just like that..they have to depress the price of private then made the effects tickled down to hdb resale?

    The upgraders not sure though..coz when the value of their hdb declined..the price to upgrade will be lesser if the price crashed to new low?

    Random thoughts.

    However if this is not their intended outcome.. Then my next question will be how come they build so many in the first place based on what statistics? Where did they get their number from?

    How many is based on geninue homeowners and how many investors?

    I posted a thread on the sums doesn’t add up in other section of this forum.

    If there are so many projects selling less than 50%...N most in ocr..this tells us oversupply or what?
    Try removing TDSR and you will know the answer.

    AEC 2015, ASEAN countries do not need to pay ABSD, do not need VISA, what will happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    Try removing TDSR and you will know the answer.

    AEC 2015, ASEAN countries do not need to pay ABSD, do not need VISA, what will happen.
    However.. Wouldn't that drive up the prices n defeats their original purpose?

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    Are you sure about this? Trying to find some confirmation. Will we see new rule to be introduced to replace this ABSD?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    Try removing TDSR and you will know the answer.

    AEC 2015, ASEAN countries do not need to pay ABSD, do not need VISA, what will happen.

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    jokes aside...this is SCARY
    In the final analysis.....its NOT whether you have a diploma,degree,masters OR PHD....its whether you have a HDB/PC/EC or LANDED...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki View Post
    I think all along isn't that what government hoped?

    That the private property prices will be lowered significantly? I.stopped short of saying crash...

    I never believed in soft landing... Coz if the investors started to panick... The sediments n behavior will be like stocks..suddenly everyone wants to sell.

    The government desperately need voters..in 2016. They perhaps assumed they lost votes to majority of those who hasn't gotten their first hdb yet. They can't lower the hdb prices just like that..they have to depress the price of private then made the effects tickled down to hdb resale?

    The upgraders not sure though..coz when the value of their hdb declined..the price to upgrade will be lesser if the price crashed to new low?

    Random thoughts.

    However if this is not their intended outcome.. Then my next question will be how come they build so many in the first place based on what statistics? Where did they get their number from?

    How many is based on geninue homeowners and how many investors?

    I posted a thread on the sums doesn’t add up in other section of this forum.

    If there are so many projects selling less than 50%...N most in ocr..this tells us oversupply or what?
    you forgot about the white paper's target of having an 8mil population

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    GUARANTEED no over supply!

    drive around Marina bay, BEach Road, Bugis, Shenton, One North, Juring East, Paya Lebar, Woodlands... can you see how many new office / commercial buildings are coming up?

    One building easily take in 5000 people!
    20 buildings = 100,000 working adults! +50% dependents! = 150,000 people coming in!

    We are now at full employment, when all these buildings TOP in 2015/ 2016 who is going to work there? definitely the floodgate will open up!

    Longer term - The whole marina area, Southern waterfront city, Paya lebar, Woodlands, Paya Lebar airbase area! why prepare all these land when we have full employment when population not going to increase?

    so if 150,000 people in 3 years time meaning 50k per year. meaning 15k housing per year + 10k family formation due to marriages = 25k housing per year.

    how to have over supply? the price dip is temporary, once backlog is met with housing and transport is solved, we will be moving towards 7m for sure!

    That is the only way to grow!

    Aging population is a real issue! we will definitely lose our edge if the average age goes up.... Singaporean above 40s all want to depend on passive income to relac one corner, who is going to work?

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    only question is how much these people are willing to pay for living in these apartment.
    "Never argue with an idiot, or he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki View Post
    I think all along isn't that what government hoped?

    That the private property prices will be lowered significantly? I.stopped short of saying crash...

    I never believed in soft landing... Coz if the investors started to panick... The sediments n behavior will be like stocks..suddenly everyone wants to sell.

    The government desperately need voters..in 2016. They perhaps assumed they lost votes to majority of those who hasn't gotten their first hdb yet. They can't lower the hdb prices just like that..they have to depress the price of private then made the effects tickled down to hdb resale?

    The upgraders not sure though..coz when the value of their hdb declined..the price to upgrade will be lesser if the price crashed to new low?

    Random thoughts.

    However if this is not their intended outcome.. Then my next question will be how come they build so many in the first place based on what statistics? Where did they get their number from?

    How many is based on geninue homeowners and how many investors?

    I posted a thread on the sums doesn’t add up in other section of this forum.

    If there are so many projects selling less than 50%...N most in ocr..this tells us oversupply or what?
    If the further 20% reduce in price really going to happen, it shows how much the price had been inflated after runaway. Government did not target PC specifically, but PC investment is one pillar that supported the overall price.
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    once supply is tapered... demand remains, price will be stable or gradual increase

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    Quote Originally Posted by CCR View Post
    once supply is tapered... demand remains, price will be stable or gradual increase
    Houses are built for people, population has to increase, runaway price must not happen again, price must be controllable. The rich and middle are doing fine, more than enough to settle well in Singapore, don't need much help to made them richer now.
    Singapore is growing well, jobs opportunity are reasonably sound.
    Just that the less wealthy group needs to receive more to narrow the gap.
    A bottle of Lafite '82 for all my coffeeshop friends yesterday...many don't know what is it....haha...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    Try removing TDSR and you will know the answer.

    AEC 2015, ASEAN countries do not need to pay ABSD, do not need VISA, what will happen.
    ABSD for Foreigners under Free Trade Agreements (FTAs):
    Nationals and/or Permanent Residents of the following countries who fall within the scope of the respective FTAs will be accorded with the same treatment as Singapore Citizen.
    Refer to IRAS website for details:

    http://www.iras.gov.sg/irasHome/page04.aspx?id=12822

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    Yes indeed! We should see a crash sooner or later!

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki View Post
    I think all along isn't that what government hoped?

    That the private property prices will be lowered significantly? I.stopped short of saying crash...

    I never believed in soft landing... Coz if the investors started to panick... The sediments n behavior will be like stocks..suddenly everyone wants to sell.

    The government desperately need voters..in 2016. They perhaps assumed they lost votes to majority of those who hasn't gotten their first hdb yet. They can't lower the hdb prices just like that..they have to depress the price of private then made the effects tickled down to hdb resale?

    The upgraders not sure though..coz when the value of their hdb declined..the price to upgrade will be lesser if the price crashed to new low?

    Random thoughts.

    However if this is not their intended outcome.. Then my next question will be how come they build so many in the first place based on what statistics? Where did they get their number from?

    How many is based on geninue homeowners and how many investors?

    I posted a thread on the sums doesn’t add up in other section of this forum.

    If there are so many projects selling less than 50%...N most in ocr..this tells us oversupply or what?

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    No more 8M because of SOME people very loud complaint! Now may be target 5m by not approving many Employment passes when they come due?

    Quote Originally Posted by eng81157 View Post
    you forgot about the white paper's target of having an 8mil population

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    No more 8M because of SOME people very loud complaint! Now may be target 5m by not approving many Employment passes when they come due?
    nah, if garmen dare to put it down on a white paper, we can be sure it isn't merely an arbitary target or some lofty ambitions.

    just a question of time when it comes to pass

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    Quote Originally Posted by eng81157 View Post
    nah, if garmen dare to put it down on a white paper, we can be sure it isn't merely an arbitary target or some lofty ambitions.

    just a question of time when it comes to pass
    thought 6.9m will not happen. now if 8m really come, then must seriously consider buying more freehold properties.. use children, parents name to buy.
    should buy somre more landed? where is the landed storm expert?

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    Quote Originally Posted by akow View Post
    ABSD for Foreigners under Free Trade Agreements (FTAs):
    Nationals and/or Permanent Residents of the following countries who fall within the scope of the respective FTAs will be accorded with the same treatment as Singapore Citizen.
    Refer to IRAS website for details:

    http://www.iras.gov.sg/irasHome/page04.aspx?id=12822
    So to summarise.. The list of countries will increase after 2015. We are looking at a very long list here.

    Brunei Darussalam
    Indonesia
    Malaysia
    Philippines
    Thailand
    Cambodia
    Lao PDR
    Myanmar
    Myanmar
    Viet Nam

    That's why the foreign buyers are holding back now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki View Post
    So to summarise.. The list of countries will increase after 2015. We are looking at a very long list here.

    Brunei Darussalam
    Indonesia
    Malaysia
    Philippines
    Thailand
    Cambodia
    Lao PDR
    Myanmar
    Myanmar
    Viet Nam

    That's why the foreign buyers are holding back now?
    then they will pay the ABSD similar to SC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4wheels View Post
    then they will pay the ABSD similar to SC.
    But Cheaper than 15% right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4wheels View Post
    then they will pay the ABSD similar to SC.
    Foreigners under Free Trade Agreements (FTAs)
    Nationals and/or Permanent Residents of the following countries who fall within the scope of the respective FTAs will be accorded with the same treatment as SCs.

    Nationals and Permanent Residents of:-

    Iceland
    Liechtenstein
    Norway
    Switzerland
    Nationals of:-

    United States of America

    http://www.iras.gov.sg/irasHome/page...822#Foreigners under Free Trade Agreements (FTAs)

    Waiting for Durian to drop will be very sad after AEC 2015.

    http://www.bsp.gov.ph/downloads/Publ...FAQs/ASEAN.pdf

    The Have and the Have Not.

    They cannot tell you in layman word because then every layman will be buying.

    They can't tell you about the money printing else everyone will be buying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    No more 8M because of SOME people very loud complaint! Now may be target 5m by not approving many Employment passes when they come due?
    Sorry to inform you after AEC 2015 500 million.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    Sorry to inform you after AEC 2015 500 million.
    So if I am an Armerican and if i buy my first property, i dont have to pay any ABSD? It only applies for 2nd house right?

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