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Thread: So Sad.

  1. #1
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    Default So Sad.


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    Why is it so sad? I think it's a perfectly normal scenario. Care to explain?

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    Work all his life need to down grade to a smaller unit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    Work all his life need to down grade to a smaller unit.
    LOL

    I have Hong Kong friends whom work all their life can't even afford a home only can rent.

    I do appreciate govt provide options from older ppl whom needs cash more then bigger place.

    I don't mind if govt provide for me but I am not going to sit there and wait for that to happen. I will try in my best personal capacity to provide for myself first then if all else fail, seek govt help. I believe that is what govt is trying "educate" everyone.

    Maybe I am from the 70s so I am fine with that as my parents taught me to be independent.

    These days ppl just want free lunch, sometimes i read straits time forum letters with much amusement.

    I think we must take up responsibility for ourselves.

    Watch the US sitcom "Shameless" and u will get the drift.

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    Me also from the 70s, we prefer to be independent too... never like the idea of spoon feeding from the government... if got things from government we will treat it as a bonus...

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    First you need a bit of history about Singapore.

    When we are developing in the 60's, 70's, we are "educated" to be the World Best Worker so that MNC can setup factory in Singapore.

    Most of them know little about what is financial planning, most of them only know work, work and more work.

    After working for so many years, government tell you to down grade for retirement.

    I am also a very good product of the government, "educated" to work ,work and more work, now they tell you can work till 67.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    First you need a bit of history about Singapore.

    When we are developing in the 60's, 70's, we are "educated" to be the World Best Worker so that MNC can setup factory in Singapore.

    Most of them know little about what is financial planning, most of them only know work, work and more work.

    After working for so many years, government tell you to down grade for retirement.

    I am also a very good product of the government, "educated" to work ,work and more work, now they tell you can work till 67.
    Gotta read the book unfair advantage the power of financial education. It's the same everywhere.but good thing my mum born in 50s taught us the basic of financial education n never to be like rats in the rats race for the rest of our lives. She barely graduated from pri school somemore . But she knows only afford to save n spend all the money to invest in us her children. She always tell us buy properties for cash flow...Dun depend on government.
    Last edited by Yuki; 11-10-14 at 09:28.

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    And having been n graduated from supposedly one of the better /top? university in the world I observed that
    schools focused more on outcome rather than the process. Critical thinking, technical and fundamental analysis (such skills not only used In stock investment lar) skills are practically non existent.

    I remember been marked as a trouble maker n Kenna complains from primary school teacher for asking a lot of why.

    When I emphasized on the process while coaching the younger employees under my charge they are extremely upset coz they.only want to be told what to do rather than how best to achieve the outcome and why. Needless to say their analytical skills non existent..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    Work all his life need to down grade to a smaller unit.

    For the average folks they work their lives and buy themselves a good home. When they are old, the flats they bought years ago could be unlocked for cash to live more comfortably. If they had not bought their flats in the earlier years and like you always said, put their savings in the bank, they would not be able to unlock the values of their flats.

    What is so sad about downgrading to a smaller flat and live more comfortably? With children moving out to set up their own families, the smaller flat may well be bigger in term of number of people / flat (unit area) as compared to the bigger flat.

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    Actually, if work all his life and can downgrade to a smaller but nice unit and can cash back a lot of CASH $$$ for comfortable retirement where got sad?

    It is only when he can't get back a lot of CASH $$$ for comfortable retirement even when he is willing to downgrade to a smaller unit then that is REALLY REALLY SAD!
    But unfortunately that may be going to happen now and in the near future due to 2 reasons:

    1) Smaller unit $PSF is so much higher than $PSF of bigger units!
    that means, downgrade to smaller unit yet pay almost same price as their own bigger units!
    E.g., nowaday 5rm flat only has a premium of about $40k compared to 4rm flat despite being 30% larger!

    2) The de-emphasis of your residential property as an asset, and policy implemented to suppress property prices for pro-longed period of time, causing hardship to people who are going to retire now or in the next 10 years!
    E.g., property price dropping now, and transactions dropped to crisis levels, people retiring now and going to retire in next 10 years unable to sell their bigger units at a good price (because of policy, bigger units now have lower $PSF and yet have to pay higher $PSF for smaller units) and hence can't downgrade! On the other hand, in a rising price property market, the larger units normally will have same or even higher $PSF compared to smaller units!


    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    Work all his life need to down grade to a smaller unit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amber Woods View Post
    For the average folks they work their lives and buy themselves a good home. When they are old, the flats they bought years ago could be unlocked for cash to live more comfortably. If they had not bought their flats in the earlier years and like you always said, put their savings in the bank, they would not be able to unlock the values of their flats.

    What is so sad about downgrading to a smaller flat and live more comfortably? With children moving out to set up their own families, the smaller flat may well be bigger in term of number of people / flat (unit area) as compared to the bigger flat.

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    HDB flat's valuation is "controlled" by the panel of HDB valuers, hence flats prices for different sizes of flat are likely to be consistent. Unless the retiree choose to downgrade to a new or much newer flat, he may not get more cash. If he choose to downgrade to a similar age flat, he is definitely cash positive.

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    But the workforce of those in the 20s will want to make $ fast and retire early.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    First you need a bit of history about Singapore.

    When we are developing in the 60's, 70's, we are "educated" to be the World Best Worker so that MNC can setup factory in Singapore.

    Most of them know little about what is financial planning, most of them only know work, work and more work.

    After working for so many years, government tell you to down grade for retirement.

    I am also a very good product of the government, "educated" to work ,work and more work, now they tell you can work till 67.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amber Woods View Post
    For the average folks they work their lives and buy themselves a good home. When they are old, the flats they bought years ago could be unlocked for cash to live more comfortably. If they had not bought their flats in the earlier years and like you always said, put their savings in the bank, they would not be able to unlock the values of their flats.

    What is so sad about downgrading to a smaller flat and live more comfortably? With children moving out to set up their own families, the smaller flat may well be bigger in term of number of people / flat (unit area) as compared to the bigger flat.
    1. PSF for small unit is higher than bigger unit.
    2. Those who have 3 room HDB got little choice.
    3. After Downgrading the money cannot ensure retirement till ROD (Run Out of Date).

    Ideal solution is

    1. Teach and educate the important of Financial planning.
    2. Explain the cause of deprecation of money.
    3. Let the young and poor leverage to the Max.

    I was young and poor, luck or God blessed to be in my situation, Max leverage since I started work.

    4 years after I started work 1988, I was able to buy a 4 room HDB for SGD 83,000 without deposit, only the money in my CPF which is less than 20% of the deposit (SGD 16,600). Salary per month SGD 1600

    7 years later 1995 with SGD 20,000 from my father and a bit of my CPF I leverage another time, SGD 250,000 for a 5 room HDB. Salary per month SGD 2400

    11 years later 2006 from the sale of my 4 room HDB and some saving leverage again on 2 Bedroom @ Southbank for SGD 535,000. Salary per month SGD 4100

    5 years later 2011 leverage again for a 3 Bedroom PH @ Terrasse for SGD 1,305,800. Salary per month SGD 2500


    Total asset = SGD 640K + 1550k + 1305800 = SGD 3,495,800
    Total liability = SGD 1,838,000.
    Last edited by Arcachon; 11-10-14 at 15:09.

  15. #15
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    You have done well. If you were to apply the same strategy now will not get the same outcome with so many stringent measures.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    1. PSF for small unit is higher than bigger unit.
    2. Those who have 3 room HDB got little choice.
    3. After Downgrading the money cannot ensure retirement till ROD (Run Out of Date).

    Ideal solution is

    1. Teach and educate the important of Financial planning.
    2. Explain the cause of deprecation of money.
    3. Let the young and poor leverage to the Max.

    I was young and poor, luck or God blessed to be in my situation, Max leverage since I started work.

    4 years after I started work 1988, I was able to buy a 4 room HDB for SGD 83,000 without deposit, only the money in my CPF which is less than 20% of the deposit (SGD 16,600). Salary per month SGD 1600

    7 years later 1995 with SGD 20,000 from my father and a bit of my CPF I leverage another time, SGD 250,000 for a 5 room HDB. Salary per month SGD 2400

    11 years later 2006 from the sale of my 4 room HDB and some saving leverage again on 2 Bedroom @ Southbank for SGD 535,000. Salary per month SGD 4100

    5 years later 2011 leverage again for a 3 Bedroom PH @ Terrasse for SGD 1,305,800. Salary per month SGD 2500


    Total asset = SGD 640K + 1550k + 1305800 = SGD 3,495,800
    Total liability = SGD 1,838,000.

  16. #16
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    You entered the HDB market in 1988 and 1995 at the time when the Singapore's property market was experiencing a boom as the country was then one of the newly industrialised nations which include Taiwan and South Korea.

    It took you 11 years later to enter the private property market in 2006 which was the bottom of the property cycle. You entered the private market again 2011 which was closer to the peak of the current market cycle.

    You should be quite well shield from the downturn from 1997 to 2006 because you did not own private property. If you had taken max leverage to buy private property in 1995, I am not sure the outcome would be the same as what you are now.

    Your private property purchased in 2006 should shield you from any major downturn. However, your last purchase in 2011 may prove challenging to many other people who may not have the backup assets acquired in earlier years.

    You bought all you assets (except year 2011) during the low of the property cycle, hence you are well shielded. In short, the timing of your purchase determines the success of your investment.

    As for leverage, you are fortunate somewhat because you own only HDB flats during the downturn between 1997 to 2006. Many people got themselves into troubles during this period with max leverage in private properties.


    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    1. PSF for small unit is higher than bigger unit.
    2. Those who have 3 room HDB got little choice.
    3. After Downgrading the money cannot ensure retirement till ROD (Run Out of Date).

    Ideal solution is

    1. Teach and educate the important of Financial planning.
    2. Explain the cause of deprecation of money.
    3. Let the young and poor leverage to the Max.

    I was young and poor, luck or God blessed to be in my situation, Max leverage since I started work.

    4 years after I started work 1988, I was able to buy a 4 room HDB for SGD 83,000 without deposit, only the money in my CPF which is less than 20% of the deposit (SGD 16,600). Salary per month SGD 1600

    7 years later 1995 with SGD 20,000 from my father and a bit of my CPF I leverage another time, SGD 250,000 for a 5 room HDB. Salary per month SGD 2400

    11 years later 2006 from the sale of my 4 room HDB and some saving leverage again on 2 Bedroom @ Southbank for SGD 535,000. Salary per month SGD 4100

    5 years later 2011 leverage again for a 3 Bedroom PH @ Terrasse for SGD 1,305,800. Salary per month SGD 2500


    Total asset = SGD 640K + 1550k + 1305800 = SGD 3,495,800
    Total liability = SGD 1,838,000.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    First you need a bit of history about Singapore.

    When we are developing in the 60's, 70's, we are "educated" to be the World Best Worker so that MNC can setup factory in Singapore.

    Most of them know little about what is financial planning, most of them only know work, work and more work.

    After working for so many years, government tell you to down grade for retirement.

    I am also a very good product of the government, "educated" to work ,work and more work, now they tell you can work till 67.
    Maybe we are in the minority group
    Yes we were told to work and work and work hard for things we want and desire

    so for me, downgrading is a no no even if there are cash incentive
    would rather stay status quo

    but in future (10, 20 years down the road) if do downgrade then it will be against my wish or force by circumstances
    that I cant control

    by that time
    will be like the thread starter had posted


    So Sad

  18. #18
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    4 years after I started work 1988, I was able to buy a 4 room HDB for SGD 83,000 without deposit, only the money in my CPF which is less than 20% of the deposit (SGD 16,600). Salary per month SGD 1600

    No other choice, cannot get 3 room HDB because government don't sell.

    7 years later 1995 with SGD 20,000 from my father and a bit of my CPF I leverage another time, SGD 250,000 for a 5 room HDB. Salary per month SGD 2400

    Cannot buy private because no money, need to borrow more for deposit.

    11 years later 2006 from the sale of my 4 room HDB and some saving leverage again on 2 Bedroom @ Southbank for SGD 535,000. Salary per month SGD 4100

    Was awake by my friend who brought a 2 Bedroom FH at Geylang for SGD 420,000. Did not know PC so cheap, my 5 room after MOP was selling for SGD 390,000.
    After factor in all the risk, get the cheapest 2 Bedroom at Southbank for SGD 535,000. Was preparing to sell 5 room and stay in 2 Bedroom.
    Get myself out of the left pocket and jump into the right pocket with half the pay and went oversea in Mar 2007.
    Was trying to find out how is my 2 Bedroom after paying SGD 108,000 a bit worry because first time buying private, green green....
    Chance upon a forum about Southbank at Skyscraper and start to learn from the guru.

    5 years later 2011 leverage again for a 3 Bedroom PH @ Terrasse for SGD 1,305,800. Salary per month SGD 2500

    After a few years of watching video in youtube, website, and book, begin to enlighten what is going on in the World, start to re-program myself.
    Got a email from UOB flyback to Singapore to get into more Debt. (Debt = Money)

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    4 years after I started work 1988, I was able to buy a 4 room HDB for SGD 83,000 without deposit, only the money in my CPF which is less than 20% of the deposit (SGD 16,600). Salary per month SGD 1600

    No other choice, cannot get 3 room HDB because government don't sell.

    7 years later 1995 with SGD 20,000 from my father and a bit of my CPF I leverage another time, SGD 250,000 for a 5 room HDB. Salary per month SGD 2400

    Cannot buy private because no money, need to borrow more for deposit.

    11 years later 2006 from the sale of my 4 room HDB and some saving leverage again on 2 Bedroom @ Southbank for SGD 535,000. Salary per month SGD 4100

    Was awake by my friend who brought a 2 Bedroom FH at Geylang for SGD 420,000. Did not know PC so cheap, my 5 room after MOP was selling for SGD 390,000.
    After factor in all the risk, get the cheapest 2 Bedroom at Southbank for SGD 535,000. Was preparing to sell 5 room and stay in 2 Bedroom.
    Get myself out of the left pocket and jump into the right pocket with half the pay and went oversea in Mar 2007.
    Was trying to find out how is my 2 Bedroom after paying SGD 108,000 a bit worry because first time buying private, green green....
    Chance upon a forum about Southbank at Skyscraper and start to learn from the guru.

    5 years later 2011 leverage again for a 3 Bedroom PH @ Terrasse for SGD 1,305,800. Salary per month SGD 2500

    After a few years of watching video in youtube, website, and book, begin to enlighten what is going on in the World, start to re-program myself.
    Got a email from UOB flyback to Singapore to get into more Debt. (Debt = Money)
    Hat off to you

    wonder how you managed with that salary income

  20. #20
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    Rental income now is more than my salary per month before paying the mortgage. After paying mortgage although positive cash flow, still near to watch the balance (bullet).

    The other pocket provide accommodation subsidy of 660 euro a month and some basic allowance in France.

  21. #21
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    Dun get it. How did u leverage for your Terrasse as I thought u didn't sell your 5 room HDB or your southbank?

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