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Thread: No sign of rethink on property cooling rules

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    Different policies affect different segments of the properties differently. The fact that policies implemented already crashed 1 segment while holding up another segment means that the policy/combination of policies is a failure and it does not work well! Simple as that isn't it? Need to explain more?

    Ok, and if they just want to look at the overall price index, that is like a toad in the well looking up, and they are seeing that the property market is still very hot, and hence govt should not do anything until property price index crash by >30% because they have gone up by too much!!!!!!! Doing otherwise just because OCR drop a bit means, well, populist action?
    Only if we decide to think simply will things work so directly.

    How do we account for the uneven fairness when property went up such that 10% for CCR was equivalent to 30% rise for OCR in terms of quantum?

    How do we account for govt investment in infrastructure and growth in incomes?

    Possible to be totally fair? I can understand your angst and frustration but what kind of policy can be made to make it fair?
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  2. #12
    OCR properties going to crash!

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    This is not a question of fairness, but a question of whether you mean what you say?

    If you want property price to drop to 2009 levels, and CCR has dropped to that level, but OCR has not, means policy is lobe-sided, a clear FAILURE, then they should do more to ensure that OCR falls to 2009 levels! Not wait and do nothing right?

    If they just want to keep price stagnant, and the fact that CCR has crashed, while OCR has indeed stagnant, means policy is a clear FAILURE, then they better do something to correct it! Not wait and do nothing right?

    So, the question now is: What they want? Why no further action? They don't value "fair treatment" principle? What about national pledge? they don't even remember?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelonguni View Post
    Only if we decide to think simply will things work so directly.

    How do we account for the uneven fairness when property went up such that 10% for CCR was equivalent to 30% rise for OCR in terms of quantum?

    How do we account for govt investment in infrastructure and growth in incomes?

    Possible to be totally fair? I can understand your angst and frustration but what kind of policy can be made to make it fair?

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    This is not a question of fairness, but a question ofmight dr whether you mean what you say?

    If you want property price to drop to 2009 levels, and CCR has dropped to that level, but OCR has not, means policy is lobe-sided, a FAILURE, then they should do more to ensure that OCR falls to 2009 levels! Not wait and do nothing right?

    If they just want to keep price stagnant, and the fact that CCR has crashed, while OCR has indeed stagnant, means policy is a clear FAILURE, then they better do something to correct it! Not wait and do nothing right?

    So, the question now is: What they want? Why no further action? They don't value "fair treatment" principle? What about national pledge? they don't even remember?
    If we introduce new artificial measures to push down OCR to 2009 levels, CCR might further drop to 2006 levels. Not sure if that is what you desire. It's not difficult actually. Just reduce TDSR to 50%.

    to help CCR, one way is to implement TDSR reduction to OCR only. Just like Cat A and Cat B COE. But the backlash of this approach will be huge, deviate even further from the directives of the national pledge.
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    This is not a question of fairness, but a question of whether you mean what you say?

    If you want property price to drop to 2009 levels, and CCR has dropped to that level, but OCR has not, means policy is lobe-sided, a clear FAILURE, then they should do more to ensure that OCR falls to 2009 levels! Not wait and do nothing right?

    If they just want to keep price stagnant, and the fact that CCR has crashed, while OCR has indeed stagnant, means policy is a clear FAILURE, then they better do something to correct it! Not wait and do nothing right?

    So, the question now is: What they want? Why no further action? They don't value "fair treatment" principle? What about national pledge? they don't even remember?
    Anyway our ministers can always say they mean and were using 2009 PPI versus median household income ratio and hit that ratio in 2016 maybe. Policy overall intent and objective achieved. After that maybe reduce one or two CMs.
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  5. #15
    OCR properties going to crash!

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    I am fine with whatever policies they implement or want to implement, as long as it is fair to all and aims to achieve same fair and equitable outcomes for all............

    If the policy didn't work or work in 1 sector only BUT NOT all sectors, then introduce more policy to ensure that the other sectors fall in line with the affected sector or change the policy to relieve the unfair effect on just that 1 sector only...........

    I am fine with that, even if CCR crash another 30% to bring OCR in line, but NOT OK when CCR crash 30% but OCR is still super high and they NOT doing anything about it. That makes us puzzle: they want property price to drop or not??????????? If yes, why no more action to cure OCR????????????

    What backlash you talking about? You mean they only want to introduce populist policies and are afraid of backlash? Didn't they say they will on introduce policies that are good for the country and not just to please the people (i.e. no populist policy)? Or you are telling us that they no long practise introducing policies that are good for the country and NOT just to please majority of people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelonguni View Post
    If we introduce new artificial measures to push down OCR to 2009 levels, CCR might further drop to 2006 levels. Not sure if that is what you desire. It's not difficult actually. Just reduce TDSR to 50%.

    to help CCR, one way is to implement TDSR reduction to OCR only. Just like Cat A and Cat B COE. But the backlash of this approach will be huge, deviate even further from the directives of the national pledge.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    I am fine with whatever policies they implement or want to implement, as long as it is fair to all and aims to achieve same fair and equitable outcomes for all............

    If the policy didn't work or work in 1 sector only BUT NOT all sectors, then introduce more policy to ensure that the other sectors fall in line with the affected sector or change the policy to relieve the unfair effect on just that 1 sector only...........

    I am fine with that, even if CCR crash another 30% to bring OCR in line, but NOT OK when CCR crash 30% but OCR is still super high and they NOT doing anything about it. That makes us puzzle: they want property price to drop or not??????????? If yes, why no more action to cure OCR????????????

    What backlash you talking about? You mean they only want to introduce populist policies and are afraid of backlash? Didn't they say they will on introduce policies that are good for the country and not just to please the people (i.e. no populist policy)? Or you are telling us that they no long practise introducing policies that are good for the country and NOT just to please majority of people?
    They installed a standard policy that had different impacts on different segments. I think is unavoidable.

    Definitely better than non standard policies that are so adhoc. Very much like Malaysia policy.
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  7. #17
    OCR properties going to crash!

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    Unavoidable?
    Might as well admit that it is a failure!
    Better think of a solution to solve the 2-class problem now instead of trying to shriek responsibility and act as though nothing happened!


    Quote Originally Posted by Kelonguni View Post
    They installed a standard policy that had different impacts on different segments. I think is unavoidable.

    Definitely better than non standard policies that are so adhoc. Very much like Malaysia policy.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    Unavoidable?
    Might as well admit that it is a failure!
    Better think of a solution to solve the 2-class problem now instead of trying to shriek responsibility and act as though nothing happened!
    If it makes you happier thinking that way...
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  9. #19
    OCR properties going to crash!

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    Not what I think, but I am raising a FACT, that the policies implemented so FAR is a FAILURE! They have not achieved their purpose! They better do something about it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelonguni View Post
    If it makes you happier thinking that way...

  10. #20
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    OCR property is resilient because of government's rentless effort to decentralized singapore commercial and retail activities and this has made CCR property less special and exclusive as compared to 10 years ago.

    Narrowing price gap between ccr and OCR will become a norm. So teddybear better learn to accept reality instead kidding yourself with bunch of lies and wrong info
    "[I]Never argue with an idiot, or he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience[/I]."

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