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Thread: If you yet to refinance your loan yet...

  1. #91
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    I am one of the Citibank customer that is affected.
    I want to go for collective loan with other bank
    I created facebook group "Singapore home grouploan"
    Welcome all person to join me and any interested borrower to join.
    Hope grouploan work as well as groupbuy.
    Cheers!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by leesg123 View Post
    Gurus, is FHR recommended now over Sibor? DBS banker told me they apply tdsr too, even for refinancing, which I told them MAS says no. Am I correct??
    MAS "exemption": yes owner occupied ones. but banks can choose not to "exempt" a case. it's at bank's option. i.e. if the bank likes you.

    FHR is new, no track record to speak about. You need to know the composition of FHR itself is not guaranteed. I think it's less transparent than SIBOR. but it's DBS, Temasek bank. *maybe* it's more ethical than the others.

    I still prefer SIBOR as it is more transparent. never mind the fixing process now which needs improvement, but I'm pretty sure when ICE makes the major move on Libor, SIBOR will follow quickly.

  3. #93
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    I noticed that FHR long-term spread (from Year 3 or 4 onwards) has been increasing like crazy!
    It was previously 1.25% and now it has been increased to 1.6%.

    Whether FHR is worth is or not will depends on FHR difference from SIBOR and their respective spreads.

    I would generally gauge that:

    If ((SIBOR - FHR) + SIBOR_spread < FHR_spread

    then SIBOR loan is cheaper.
    Otherwise FHR loan may be more worth it, assuming both FHR and SIBOR should move together (theoretically).


    Quote Originally Posted by amk View Post
    MAS "exemption": yes owner occupied ones. but banks can choose not to "exempt" a case. it's at bank's option. i.e. if the bank likes you.

    FHR is new, no track record to speak about. You need to know the composition of FHR itself is not guaranteed. I think it's less transparent than SIBOR. but it's DBS, Temasek bank. *maybe* it's more ethical than the others.

    I still prefer SIBOR as it is more transparent. never mind the fixing process now which needs improvement, but I'm pretty sure when ICE makes the major move on Libor, SIBOR will follow quickly.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by amk View Post
    MAS "exemption": yes owner occupied ones. but banks can choose not to "exempt" a case. it's at bank's option. i.e. if the bank likes you.

    FHR is new, no track record to speak about. You need to know the composition of FHR itself is not guaranteed. I think it's less transparent than SIBOR. but it's DBS, Temasek bank. *maybe* it's more ethical than the others.

    I still prefer SIBOR as it is more transparent. never mind the fixing process now which needs improvement, but I'm pretty sure when ICE makes the major move on Libor, SIBOR will follow quickly.
    FHR past 10 years historical high is only at 0.875, SIBOR was at 7.75 at the same period of time.

    True that FHR is only introduced in the market a couple of years only and we won't be able to see the long term track record.
    But since its from government bank, what are the chances of government killing its country people?

  5. #95
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    FHR highest 0.875%? Thought I have received 3.2% FD before?

    Quote Originally Posted by MortgageGuru View Post
    FHR past 10 years historical high is only at 0.875, SIBOR was at 7.75 at the same period of time.

    True that FHR is only introduced in the market a couple of years only and we won't be able to see the long term track record.
    But since its from government bank, what are the chances of government killing its country people?

  6. #96
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    I have the graph clearly stating that FHR was at highest 0.875 in 2005.
    your FD probably is more than 10 years ago?

  7. #97
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    Highest is 0.875 in 2005 is bec of deliberate low interest rate policy regime.

    What happens when policy is reversed?

    Housing loan is long term marathon.

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    Dbs state they do not track prior to 2007.

  9. #99
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    It's about time you check with a higher personnel in dbs then.
    I have the historical graph from 2005.
    people who know me in here knows that my dbs network is my strongest network of all bank.

  10. #100
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    past 10 years historical high for SIBOR was at 7.75%?
    Did you make a mistake?
    Please look at the attached chart. 3M SIBOR highest in past 10 years was only about 3.5%!
    Past_10_years_Historical_Sibor_Chart_2004_-_2014_Singapore.jpg


    Quote Originally Posted by MortgageGuru View Post
    FHR past 10 years historical high is only at 0.875, SIBOR was at 7.75 at the same period of time.

    True that FHR is only introduced in the market a couple of years only and we won't be able to see the long term track record.
    But since its from government bank, what are the chances of government killing its country people?

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by MortgageGuru View Post
    FHR past 10 years historical high is only at 0.875
    You cannot make such statement. FHR does not exist prior to 2014.

    What you are saying, is a *simulated back testing" result. That is, if we simulate a FHR in the past, with *current promotional composition*, which is subjected to change anytime, what it *would have been* for the past x years.

    This is akin of selling a new fund, and saying according to the fund's "current composition", it WOULD have had a past x yrs stellar "performance" of ###%.
    Do you know the above way of selling a fund is EXPLICITLY forbidden by MAS ? (because funds selling is a "regulated" activity i.e. u need a license to do it). What it is doing, is taking KNOWN past performance to sell an unknown product. Whoever doing that will have his license revoked by MAS. Simple reason: you can always formulate/"engineer" a product using past records to make it look good/attractive.

    I am not saying FHR is a bad rate. I am saying you cannot use simulated past years results as an argument. Especially FHR can be changed solely by one bank at any time and there is no regulation on that. It is easy to have low FHR when rates are predominantly low ("everybody is low anyway"). It remains to be seen when rates start rising, what FHR will behave, will DBS change its composition, etc. FHR has no track record. It's a matter of your judgment and trust. (For example: can DBS commit there is only ONE FHR across the board, not every one having his own "FHR", like "board rate" ?)

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by amk View Post
    You cannot make such statement. FHR does not exist prior to 2014.

    What you are saying, is a *simulated back testing" result. That is, if we simulate a FHR in the past, with *current promotional composition*, which is subjected to change anytime, what it *would have been* for the past x years.

    This is akin of selling a new fund, and saying according to the fund's "current composition", it WOULD have had a past x yrs stellar "performance" of ###%.
    Do you know the above way of selling a fund is EXPLICITLY forbidden by MAS ? (because funds selling is a "regulated" activity i.e. u need a license to do it). What it is doing, is taking KNOWN past performance to sell an unknown product. Whoever doing that will have his license revoked by MAS. Simple reason: you can always formulate/"engineer" a product using past records to make it look good/attractive.

    I am not saying FHR is a bad rate. I am saying you cannot use simulated past years results as an argument. Especially FHR can be changed solely by one bank at any time and there is no regulation on that. It is easy to have low FHR when rates are predominantly low ("everybody is low anyway"). It remains to be seen when rates start rising, what FHR will behave, will DBS change its composition, etc. FHR has no track record. It's a matter of your judgment and trust. (For example: can DBS commit there is only ONE FHR across the board, not every one having his own "FHR", like "board rate" ?)
    Yes what you say is true as well.
    as a consumer, I will rather go for fhr than sibor in this market.
    If you ask me about transparency, apparently there's none in all eventually because all the rates is still at the bank's mercy, it's only which bank sells you a better pitching.

  13. #103
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    Just look at dbs factsheet

  14. #104
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    Can provide the factsheet here?

    Quote Originally Posted by newbie11 View Post
    Just look at dbs factsheet

  15. #105
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    Eh better not la. Later kena complain haha. Find a dbs customer to show la

  16. #106
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    Vested interests.
    So smelly. Information also skewed to suit your pitch.

  17. #107
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    Care to share:
    1) Who has vested interests?
    2) Which piece of information has been skewed to suit whose pitch?

    You by making those post is like never post at all because it doesn't clarify anything and never reveal any useful information...........
    Please clarify because NO gentleman will act sneakily like that..........

    Quote Originally Posted by sabian View Post
    Vested interests.
    So smelly. Information also skewed to suit your pitch.

  18. #108
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    Brokers, agents, middlemen, whatever you like to call them love churn.

    When banks start to play punk, the herd will all start to look fixed rate.

    Guess who benefits? So you can see why so much smoke and mirrors? Why must discuss via private messaging?

    If banks are taken to task for not keeping to the spirit of the onerous loan contract they drafted, do you think there will be so many enquiries on fixed loan?

    So who is the one wearing the shortest cheerleader skirt and swinging the biggest pom pom?

  19. #109
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    Ladies and Gentlemen, it is still not too late to sub-sale your units if you foresee your calculations not adding up as expected with the rising interest rates. Think wisely and make the right decisions!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ggmount View Post
    I also interested to know !

    Or anyone who recently refinance can share?
    Repriced from existing mortgage within bank D's FHR package towards end 2014.

    1st 3 years: FHR+0.9%
    Thereafter: FHR+1.25%

    Was not the best then as there were many sibor based floating package which were slightly lower.
    However, it sure looks like a good deal for now as long as FHR stays at current rate of 0.4%. (Effective rate 1.3%)
    Don't think bank is offering that spread now.

    Good luck in the search.
    cheers.

  21. #111
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    Oh I see, Thanks for the clarification. What you said is illuminating and makes lots of sense!

    Quote Originally Posted by sabian View Post
    Brokers, agents, middlemen, whatever you like to call them love churn.

    When banks start to play punk, the herd will all start to look fixed rate.

    Guess who benefits? So you can see why so much smoke and mirrors? Why must discuss via private messaging?

    If banks are taken to task for not keeping to the spirit of the onerous loan contract they drafted, do you think there will be so many enquiries on fixed loan?

    So who is the one wearing the shortest cheerleader skirt and swinging the biggest pom pom?

  22. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reisor View Post
    ...as long as FHR stays at current rate of 0.4%.
    You all should know there is a game changer now: MAS is issuing this new Singapore Savings Bonds. For as little as $500, you can get 0.9% for 1Y. 1.5% for 2Y. More over, every month you can take out the funds without paying any penalty. It is as if MAS is doing a FD promotion for all. Why would any one place a FD with DBS for 0.25% for 1Y and 0.55% for 2Y ? Some more DBS FD sure has penalty if you early withdraw.

    How is DBS going to keep the FD rate at 0.25% ? I really dun see how it can maintain it. DBS will have to raise the FD interest rate to be at least on par with SSB. To be honest I am not sure if this is a policy intention.

    Think about what is going to happen to "FHR"....

  23. #113
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    I concur with you the effect of SSB on FHR and all Fix Deposit rates.

    Only thing I am not sure is: What will likely be a stable spread between FHR and SIBOR? As of today, 3M SIBOR = 1.0% and FHR = 0.4% (so spread is 0.6%). Previously, the spread has hit a low of 0.1% or even less. So will this spread stabilize at 0.60% or will it narrow? What is your view?


    Quote Originally Posted by amk View Post
    You all should know there is a game changer now: MAS is issuing this new Singapore Savings Bonds. For as little as $500, you can get 0.9% for 1Y. 1.5% for 2Y. More over, every month you can take out the funds without paying any penalty. It is as if MAS is doing a FD promotion for all. Why would any one place a FD with DBS for 0.25% for 1Y and 0.55% for 2Y ? Some more DBS FD sure has penalty if you early withdraw.

    How is DBS going to keep the FD rate at 0.25% ? I really dun see how it can maintain it. DBS will have to raise the FD interest rate to be at least on par with SSB. To be honest I am not sure if this is a policy intention.

    Think about what is going to happen to "FHR"....

  24. #114
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    UOB increase board rate to 5.15 from 4.8.

  25. #115
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    I am seriously thinking its better to be loan-free.
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

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    Was told that bank loan rates high..but the FdD rates are very pretty high too...

    That's coming from people who have went through a few rounds of property bust n bloom. N FHR do not exist back then.

    So looking at only one aspect of the equation is very risky.


    Quote Originally Posted by MortgageGuru View Post
    FHR past 10 years historical high is only at 0.875, SIBOR was at 7.75 at the same period of time.

    True that FHR is only introduced in the market a couple of years only and we won't be able to see the long term track record.
    But since its from government bank, what are the chances of government killing its country people?

  27. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki View Post
    Was told that bank loan rates high..but the FdD rates are very pretty high too...

    That's coming from people who have went through a few rounds of property bust n bloom. N FHR do not exist back then.

    So looking at only one aspect of the equation is very risky.
    Yes agreed,

    but the trend of FHR spread increasing rapidly in recent months just goes to show that they won't be increasing FHR itself.

    Just like how SIBOR been rising but bank do not increase the spread(note that I'm referring to new loan taken up for SIBOR packages, its spread still low at 0.8% from most bank)

    In any case, the trend is there plainly for everyone to see that SIBOR is always going to be much higher if FHR were to go up too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wildfaye29 View Post
    UOB increase board rate to 5.15 from 4.8.
    Will the customers receive letter for the increase?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelonguni View Post
    I am seriously thinking its better to be loan-free.

    Food for thought....

    Assume you have 1 mil loan at 1.5% interest.
    Assume you have 1 mil cash which you spread below.
    Assume you put 500k into bonds that earn you 4% per annum (blue chip company)
    Assume you put 250k into fd @ 1%.
    Assume 250k standby in deposit account....

    Is this better or paying off the loan?????
    Would you be able to use the interest to offset the income tax????

    This is just one possible option.... There are others.... Paying up in full is also a viable option.... Many ways to skin a cat.... Hahahahaha...

    It all depends on personal goals.... Some are so worried over mortgage interest rather than trying to figure out how to make money.....

  30. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildfaye29 View Post
    UOB increase board rate to 5.15 from 4.8.
    just received confirmation from banker that some case board rate increase by 0.8%

    So if they're at 4.5% , it will be 5.3%.

    Now, board rate can be so scary.

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