Page 3 of 19 FirstFirst 123456781318 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 190

Thread: Citibank is unilaterally rasing the spread on its existing Sibor loan customers !

  1. #21
    Global recession is coming....

    User Info Menu

    Default

    It would help if he get a letter in black and white from CITI that they are unilaterally changing the "fixed spread" despite what is stated in the mortgage loan letter.

    Otherwise later CITI can clarify to reporters and just say "administrative mistake" and they had sent the "wrong letter" to him?
    "administrative mistake" becomes such a good LAME excuse these days, like the lawyer over-billed the doctor, just give excuse "administrative mistake", lo and behold, no penalty, no fault of them!

    Quote Originally Posted by amk View Post
    Haiz, we consumers can't fight it unless the press is involved and MAS is paying attention. To me, this is a clear unfair contract term which should be invalid by default. Just msged him. He managed to talk to some reporters, hope he can convince the reporter to print this story. He said MAS no response.

  2. #22
    Junior

    User Info Menu

    Default

    Whatever happens to sanctity of contract?

  3. #23
    Senior

    User Info Menu

    Default

    i doubt very much we have a case


    during the lehman crisis, when USD funding rates shot thru the roof.

    Libor was fixed say at 2 pct for 12 mth, the actual mkt was trading at 2.75 to 3.25 pct.

    Corporate customers pulled out their credit facilities letter and drew down max amt of 12mth at Libor plus, say 0.5pct.
    Which means they are getting their funds cheaper than the actual mkt.

    banks were scrambling to cover the funds in the mkt and lost tonnes of money...

    before long, the banks started to change the facility agreement, new and existing ones, to Cost of funds + 0.5 pct...

    There was nothing the customers could do... neither did the central banks did anything...

    the corporate customers LL had to accept it ...

  4. #24
    Junior

    User Info Menu

    Default

    Some here are congratulating themselves on getting a good deal from citibank. "I am a big fxxking hero, get 1M sibor + 0.65".
    Yet when terms change, now they are crying victimhood here? Wahbiang.

    When u apply for loan, u r given letter of offer valid for some time, u can compare with other competing letter of offer from other banks. Study the t&c
    And nobody ever forced u to accept the letter of offer. The contract is signed on willing party basis is it not?

    You signed it, u owned it.

    whatever happened to sanctity of contract?
    (Even though the terms are stacked heavily in favor of banks, a contract still must be honored)

  5. #25
    Junior

    User Info Menu

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by amk View Post
    ...As far as I know, all these years, no other bank has ever invoked that term to change a promised spread/rate just like that. Well done Citibank !
    When rates go negative, cimb sent a letter stating there would be a floor on rates.
    so cimb already used the clause to change the mortgage contract.

  6. #26
    Junior

    User Info Menu

    Default

    amk, just a thought:
    can your friend switch to other banks?
    or will he fail the TDSR test?

  7. #27
    Junior

    User Info Menu

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hopeful View Post
    When rates go negative, cimb sent a letter stating there would be a floor on rates.
    so cimb already used the clause to change the mortgage contract.
    yes true, I forgot about the negative rate case. for that one, consumers dun feel that unfair as it is indeed extraordinary.
    nobody is doubting the legality of the move. As I said, contract is bullet proof. however legality is one thing, unfair term is another. I feel the public should be at least made known there is a bank doing this. and Citi should be at least reprimanded by MAS for invoking that kind of term liberally. Citi should be shamed publicly, pretty much the same as GS giving ppl 90mins "reasonable time" so every one knows what kind of bank GS is. SG is too small. I am sure in Europe or US the bank can be sued.

    Case in mind, the IB CHF story. You know that right ? IB can requote the price after the contract was done because again it is in his T&C. Ppl are being asked to pay hundreds of thousands, for Singapore client. However, in Germany, IB absorbed the loss and did not ask the client to pay, because in Germany there is this unfair contract terms clause, IB knew it would be challenged. Only in SG, there seems to be little protection.

    proud owner: I guess you know for corporate loans, say APMLA format, the complete doc is something like 70-100 pages, with "Increase of Cost" prominently displayed and explicitly spelt out as a valid reason to revise the rate, in the same font, size as in any other terms, there is no separate booklet "T&C" separately, so it is more "fair" than consumer loan T&C where "I can do whatever I want" is a "hidden" clause in small print. In addition, corporates have lawyers vetting through contracts and they are not afraid of suing the bank for contract discrepancy, whereas consumer is always not at a equal position as a bank in terms of resources. (This is why US has class action legal recourse for consumers.) Whether or not he has a case, depends entirely on whether MAS wants to make it a case.

  8. #28
    Junior

    User Info Menu

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hopeful View Post
    amk, just a thought:
    can your friend switch to other banks?
    or will he fail the TDSR test?
    I dun know if he will pass the TDSR. But I know he has a good job, and this is his only house.

  9. #29
    Junior

    User Info Menu

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by amk View Post
    ......
    Case in mind, the IB CHF story. You know that right ? IB can requote the price after the contract was done because again it is in his T&C. Ppl are being asked to pay hundreds of thousands, for Singapore client. However, in Germany, IB absorbed the loss and did not ask the client to pay, because in Germany there is this unfair contract terms clause, IB knew it would be challenged. Only in SG, there seems to be little protection.

    proud owner: I guess you know for corporate loans, say APMLA format, the complete doc is something like 70-100 pages, with "Increase of Cost" prominently displayed and explicitly spelt out as a valid reason to revise the rate, in the same font, size as in any other terms, there is no separate booklet "T&C" separately, so it is more "fair" than consumer loan T&C where "I can do whatever I want" is a "hidden" clause in small print. In addition, corporates have lawyers vetting through contracts and they are not afraid of suing the bank for contract discrepancy, whereas consumer is always not at a equal position as a bank in terms of resources. (This is why US has class action legal recourse for consumers.) Whether or not he has a case, depends entirely on whether MAS wants to make it a case.
    We both know big fish eat small fish, i accept it, but my guess is all know it, but most dont really accept it

    This (para-phrased) message by an unknown is always at the back of my mind:
    "how long does it take for you to accumulate, $200k, 300k. To the majority of you, to accumulate that amount take a few years of your life, your hard work, your blood and your sweat.
    Yet I would confidently say most of you would not spend the few hours, not to mention days, to look through the contracts, to look at the terms and conditions, to ask around, to ask for advice and opinion. Or if you asked around, you asked your friends and relatives, who are in no way qualified to give you any sort of advice.
    This is not called doing your homework, you are only fooling yourself, so that if the deal turns sour, you can comfort yourself saying you have done your homework, you have done your due diligence.

    Remember, it takes a few years to accumulate that amount, and you spend only a few hours to gamble it away. Most here would denied they gambled, instead calling it an investment, but i would called it gambling."

    I cannot put the it as well as the original speaker, but i hope forummers here get the message.

  10. #30
    Junior

    User Info Menu

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    It would help if he get a letter in black and white from CITI that they are unilaterally changing the "fixed spread" despite what is stated in the mortgage loan letter.
    Citi sent him a letter telling him the spread is changed. No, not admin mistake. Legally Citi is covered.

    hopeful: hmmm.. slightly different here. you do not have a choice here, all banks have catchall clause. So the only mistake he made is trusting Citi to be an ethical bank. Again, you may say he made a mistake: banks are not to be trusted, case in point: GS 90mins "reasonable" time. Well, before this we dun know, now we do, at least Citi is not to be trusted. So ppl should place yet another factor on the trustworthiness of the bank when considering loan packages. Lowest rate is not always the best deal: will the bank honor it ? (Hey that's a line for all the mortgage broker here, another way to sell you deal : "my package may not be the best, but my bank will honour it not like others" )

Page 3 of 19 FirstFirst 123456781318 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •