Don't know can tell them my story.

[Arcachon]

[Citizen]

Master Arcachon, majority dun like to listen to your successfully story lah , usually people like gossips , rumours and distorted stories. But if I would have heard your story in 2009-2011 I will huat liao or at least less resentful. sad

[star]

Very ungrateful person u r arcachon.

[star]

Without them renting hdb or condo in Singapore u think alot can survive with the loan? Old people can rent out hdb and retire.

[Arcachon]

Master Arcachon, majority dun like to listen to your successfully story lah , usually people like gossips , rumours and distorted stories. But if I would have heard your story in 2009-2011 I will huat liao or at least less resentful. sad

I was blessed to know one of my colleague bought a 2 Bedroom FH @ Geylang for SGD 420,000 in 2006.

I share with lot of people but not all are so blessed.

Some feel offended, some told me I like to boast while a few got into the boat and happy sailing.

One told me he cannot buy private because got HDB in 2007, I ask him who told him, he say his agent.

He went back Singapore bought a private(Simei EC), went china bought a few property after hearing my story.

Another told me he is saving a million dollar to buy landed, after hearing my story he went back Singapore buy private(8 @ Woodleigh) in 2009, now bought land in France and got builder to build his house.

I got a visit from a colleague from Singapore who hear my story, he went back sell his HDB bought a 3 Bedroom PH EC (Twin Waterfall).

He told me he don't understand in his office lot of people got lot of cash in CPF and staying in HDB.

One without much cash go India buy land and build shop house.

My sister-in-law bought commercial because cannot get private due to MOP and bought a few in China.

Those who are blessed are those who Hear, Learn and Action while others do everything except Hear, Learn and Action.

Hope my sharing can help more and I will feel more blessed.

[Citizen]

I was blessed to know one of my colleague bought a 2 Bedroom FH @ Geylang for SGD 420,000 in 2006.

I share with lot of people but not all are so blessed.

Some feel offended, some told me I like to boast while a few got into the boat and happy sailing.

One told me he cannot buy private because got HDB in 2007, I ask him who told him, he say his agent.

He went back Singapore bought a private(Simei EC), went china bought a few property after hearing my story.

Another told me he is saving a million dollar to buy landed, after hearing my story he went back Singapore buy private(8 @ Woodleigh) in 2009, now bought land in France and got builder to build his house.

I got a visit from a colleague from Singapore who hear my story, he went back sell his HDB bought a 3 Bedroom PH EC (Twin Waterfall).

He told me he don't understand in his office lot of people got lot of cash in CPF and staying in HDB.

One without much cash go India buy land and build shop house.

My sister-in-law bought commercial because cannot get private due to MOP and bought a few in China.

Those who are blessed are those who Hear, Learn and Action while others do everything except Hear, Learn and Action.

Hope my sharing can help more and I will feel more blessed.

Master Arcachon ,忠言逆耳 , 凉药苦口 . What to do, that's life!

[watchlist88]

Housing price to income ratio must always be proportional, otherwise it creates dissentment in the masses. They do not want to see themselves or their children having to slog and pay their entire life for the house leaving nothing for retirement. Fo those who were able to profit from the disproportional ratio in the years before the slew of cooling measures came in because the government did not keep a tight lid on things, you have stepped onto the right boat or had the acumen to make the move.

Moving forward, the government has realised that housing affordability is a very crucial aspect of governance after the last election, and I am sure they will continue to keep a close watch on things in case it gets out of hand. Till then, nobody can predict what the future holds !

[Citizen]

Housing price to income ratio must always be proportional, otherwise it creates dissentment in the masses. They do not want to see themselves or their children having to slog and pay their entire life for the house leaving nothing for retirement. Fo those who were able to profit from the disproportional ratio in the years before the slew of cooling measures came in because the government did not keep a tight lid on things, you have stepped onto the right boat or had the acumen to make the move.

Moving forward, the government has realised that housing affordability is a very crucial aspect of governance after the last election, and I am sure they will continue to keep a close watch on things in case it gets out of hand. Till then, nobody can predict what the future holds !

Master WL88 , what you said is normally, usually ,generally but what I read were different, some Masters always said not time to buy, property prices crashing, oversupply , Govt intervention to press down market price etc etc. Like you said "nobody can predict what the future holds !"
It doesn't mean up or down or stable. Down when there is a black swan, Up when everything are smooth and steady, and stable because of govt intervention.
Masters please advise

[Citizen]

Master WL88 , what you said is normally, usually ,generally but what I read were different, some Masters always said not time to buy, property prices crashing, oversupply , Govt intervention to press down market price etc etc. Like you said "nobody can predict what the future holds !"
It doesn't mean up or down or stable. Down when there is a black swan, Up when everything are smooth and steady, and stable because of govt intervention.
Masters please advise

Masters , or some Masters know that they have to die die press the property price to meet the income ratio within a time frame rather than gradually let the income ratio gap close up? From official data our home ownership is high they dun have to meet time frame isn't it. I went to meet MP session, the staff told me that in 2002 when property price was low many residents complained can't pay installment, now complain house too expensive.

[watchlist88]

Hi Master Citizen, if you saw the 2014 video that Arcachon posted in another link about Minister Khaw saying that his ministry has to consider lots of variables when considering when is right time to relax or tighten housing policies, you are right to say that there is a lot of uncertainty or variables to be able to "predict the future" housing market. MND has got lots of statistical data and analysts to feed local and international info to him to decide, we are the ones at the bottom of the pack.

Given that there is a housing oversupply currently, impending interest rate hikes, tightening of foreign labour and immigration policies, global uncertainty regarding health of China's economy (may balloon into another Asian financial crisis, who knows ?), I will say park your money elsewhere first and wait for opportune moment. That could be many years down the years, who know ? I don't know either.

[Arcachon]

Housing price to income ratio must always be proportional, otherwise it creates dissentment in the masses. They do not want to see themselves or their children having to slog and pay their entire life for the house leaving nothing for retirement.

1988 - When I first bought my first 4 room HDB (smallest HDB), there is no such things as "Housing price to income ratio". It more on whether you want or don't want to buy.

I choose to buy with minimum CPF (SAF pay reduce CPF)and cash top up every month.

1995 - When I buy my 5 room HDB also don't have "Housing price to income ratio". It more on whether you want or don't want to buy.

I choose to buy with borrow money from my father and save on car and holidays. There are no MSR, CPF grant, Bank loan........

2006 - When I buy my 2 Bedroom (cheapest in the development) also don't have "Housing price to income ratio". It more on whether you can pay 20% and at that time 5% DPS.

I choose to buy.

They can only do so much, the rest is depend on individual what they want. Problem is some don't want and they also don't let other have.

They do not need to provide every family with 4 room HDB and they start to build 2 room HDB after 2011 election. Now everyone is happy.??????

[Citizen]

Hi Master Citizen, if you saw the 2014 video that Arcachon posted in another link about Minister Khaw saying that his ministry has to consider lots of variables when considering when is right time to relax or tighten housing policies, you are right to say that there is a lot of uncertainty or variables to be able to "predict the future" housing market. MND has got lots of statistical data and analysts to feed local and international info to him to decide, we are the ones at the bottom of the pack.

Given that there is a housing oversupply currently, impending interest rate hikes, tightening of foreign labour and immigration policies, global uncertainty regarding health of China's economy (may balloon into another Asian financial crisis, who knows ?), I will say park your money elsewhere first and wait for opportune moment. That could be many years down the years, who know ? I don't know either.

Thanks for your reply Master WL88, in fact I parked my money any where except local property, I lost in gold, stock, foreign currencies ,unit trust ,insurance policies ,cars, JV business venture etc etc. Just regret never invested property.

[Citizen]

Thanks for your reply Master WL88, in fact I parked my money any where except local property, I lost in gold, stock, foreign currencies ,unit trust ,insurance policies ,cars, JV business venture etc etc. Just regret never invested property.

All Masters , are gold, stock, foreign currencies ,unit trust ,insurance policies resilient to crises they are never oversupply and safe?

[Arcachon]

All Masters , are gold, stock, foreign currencies ,unit trust ,insurance policies resilient to crises they are never oversupply and safe?

They are under control by Big Fish, swim with care.

[Citizen]

All the Masters , of course we can leave our money to the banks as FD, they use it to invest , when everything smooth , they pay us interest rate.
When some things happened ? look at Lehman ,Cyprus bank ,greek banks and 1997 Malaysia banks.

[Arcachon]

When you borrow a lot, Bank worry not you.

When you save a lot, You worry not the Bank.

[Kelonguni]

Let me park my two cents on this.

The current situation is even if someone intends to buy, he/she/the family may still be curbed by the CMs especially TDSR and/or ABSD. Even though there is ABSD remission, my impression is that it has to be paid upfront while awaiting the remission after property is built.

For a significant group who qualify in income, they could still be limited by their existing debts (mortgages or cars). These may result in the inability to buy despite the touted increase in affordability due to the held prices over the years.

Therefore, writing as if everyone can buy but choose not to can be frustrating for some of these readers. But I agree that those who qualify in every aspect but still choose to wait for their money to appreciate might be waiting for a boat that never comes.

[Citizen]

Thanks Master Arcachon and Kelonguni for your enlightenment, you are optimistic on property investments. But what I would like to hear is how they parked their money from those masters who are pessimistic on property investments. Or they just want to mislead and talk down property.

[Arcachon]

one man's meat is another man's poison.

http://blog.wenxuecity.com/blog/fron...11&postId=6823

[watchlist88]

Let me park my two cents on this.

The current situation is even if someone intends to buy, he/she/the family may still be curbed by the CMs especially TDSR and/or ABSD. Even though there is ABSD remission, my impression is that it has to be paid upfront while awaiting the remission after property is built.

For a significant group who qualify in income, they could still be limited by their existing debts (mortgages or cars). These may result in the inability to buy despite the touted increase in affordability due to the held prices over the years.

Therefore, writing as if everyone can buy but choose not to can be frustrating for some of these readers. But I agree that those who qualify in every aspect but still choose to wait for their money to appreciate might be waiting for a boat that never comes.

To add on about the ABSD, it really sucks big time because IRAS takes your $$$ and then returns you say 5 years later when house TOP. I could take this $$$ and invest myself over these 5 years, in short there is opportunity costs lost because IRAS don't pay you any interest at all for the 5 years. See my example simple calculations at different annualised returns of 5%, 7% and 10% :


$1m house = $70,000 ABSD (7% for Singaporeans buying 2nd property )

YEAR 5% returns 7% returns 10% returns
1 $73,500 $74,900 $77,000
2 $77,175 $80,143 $84,700
3 $81,034 $85,753 $93,170
4 $85,085 $91,756 $102,487
5 $89,340 $98,179 $112,736

[Kelonguni]

That too. But my descriptions are more for the group that has not even saved up the 7% on top of the 20%.

It's quite a huge sum. $ 1 million property requires about 300k cash and CPF. Certainly beyond the reach of someone who has not worked more than several years.

To add on about the ABSD, it really sucks big time because IRAS takes your $$$ and then returns you say 5 years later when house TOP. I could take this $$$ and invest myself over these 5 years, in short there is opportunity costs lost because IRAS don't pay you any interest at all for the 5 years. See my example simple calculations at different annualised returns of 5%, 7% and 10% :


$1m house = $70,000 ABSD (7% for Singaporeans buying 2nd property )

YEAR 5% returns 7% returns 10% returns
1 $73,500 $74,900 $77,000
2 $77,175 $80,143 $84,700
3 $81,034 $85,753 $93,170
4 $85,085 $91,756 $102,487
5 $89,340 $98,179 $112,736

[Kelonguni]

Another way to minimise this is to get a TOP property, resales, or one about to TOP. Then the 7% will not accumulate over years.

To add on about the ABSD, it really sucks big time because IRAS takes your $$$ and then returns you say 5 years later when house TOP. I could take this $$$ and invest myself over these 5 years, in short there is opportunity costs lost because IRAS don't pay you any interest at all for the 5 years. See my example simple calculations at different annualised returns of 5%, 7% and 10% :


$1m house = $70,000 ABSD (7% for Singaporeans buying 2nd property )

YEAR 5% returns 7% returns 10% returns
1 $73,500 $74,900 $77,000
2 $77,175 $80,143 $84,700
3 $81,034 $85,753 $93,170
4 $85,085 $91,756 $102,487
5 $89,340 $98,179 $112,736

[Reisor]

My2¢. After more than 2 decades of 打工仔, observing and learning from those "orang kaya baru", there are those who have the "career luck" and those who have the "property or investment luck".
There are those who were very efficient, effective at work and often spotted for higher post and promotion. They will make their $ through these. However, there are those who are not on any fast track, but always savvy when it comes to investment, like Midas Touch. e.g. bought a first private during SARS, sold for almost $0.5M profit before Lehman, went it 2009 (Best ever for propty, stocks, even COE) like multiple MM units (grouped investment), TOP rental of $4~5k (~7 % yld until 2014 drop to 5%), cash out 1 in 2013 - in preparation for cash needy days.... Guess which is better?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Actually both works as well in accumulation of wealth... important is to identify which is your strong areas for growth.... and choose that path ....
Good for if one chooses the one which assist to gain financial independence
The very capable tries to balance both on their own .... very tough, not impossible, may not do well at both as not focused ...
The wise one play to the strength of his or her own (MD, Senior Manager,CEO) tap on the strength of other experts (trusted agents) to do the rest..

[Kelonguni]

Actually luck is also important just that we can't really control it.

Sometimes it's just one heng thing lead to another. Luck plus savvy or working hard/smart is important. Best is if all three present but very rare.

My2¢. After more than 2 decades of 打工仔, observing and learning from those "orang kaya baru", there are those who have the "career luck" and those who have the "property or investment luck".
There are those who were very efficient, effective at work and often spotted for higher post and promotion. They will make their $ through these. However, there are those who are not on any fast track, but always savvy when it comes to investment, like Midas Touch. e.g. bought a first private during SARS, sold for almost $0.5M profit before Lehman, went it 2009 (Best ever for propty, stocks, even COE) like multiple MM units (grouped investment), TOP rental of $4~5k (~7 % yld until 2014 drop to 5%), cash out 1 in 2013 - in preparation for cash needy days.... Guess which is better?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Actually both works as well in accumulation of wealth... important is to identify which is your strong areas for growth.... and choose that path ....
Good for if one chooses the one which assist to gain financial independence
The very capable tries to balance both on their own .... very tough, not impossible, may not do well at both as not focused ...
The wise one play to the strength of his or her own (MD, Senior Manager,CEO) tap on the strength of other experts (trusted agents) to do the rest..

[watchlist88]

My2¢. After more than 2 decades of 打工仔, observing and learning from those "orang kaya baru", there are those who have the "career luck" and those who have the "property or investment luck".
There are those who were very efficient, effective at work and often spotted for higher post and promotion. They will make their $ through these. However, there are those who are not on any fast track, but always savvy when it comes to investment, like Midas Touch. e.g. bought a first private during SARS, sold for almost $0.5M profit before Lehman, went it 2009 (Best ever for propty, stocks, even COE) like multiple MM units (grouped investment), TOP rental of $4~5k (~7 % yld until 2014 drop to 5%), cash out 1 in 2013 - in preparation for cash needy days.... Guess which is better?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Actually both works as well in accumulation of wealth... important is to identify which is your strong areas for growth.... and choose that path ....
Good for if one chooses the one which assist to gain financial independence
The very capable tries to balance both on their own .... very tough, not impossible, may not do well at both as not focused ...
The wise one play to the strength of his or her own (MD, Senior Manager,CEO) tap on the strength of other experts (trusted agents) to do the rest..

Your 2 cents very valuable and wise indeed. Similar thoughts as me.

Let me share my 2 cents too with my own experience. I could have gone on to work my way up to senior management position back then as my boss recognised my contributions but decided enough of the work stress and lack of time to spend with wife and my young kids is not worth the sacrifice. Decided then that the best way to generate extra income was to focus and look at different types of investments and what suits my risk appetite. Read up on many investment books and researched to educate myself, because formal schooling does not teach about financial discipline and investment to the average person.

Rode through the ups and downs of the markets during Asian Financial Crisis, SARS, US Sep 11 attacks, US subprime crisis, EURO financial crisis, etc. The one big thing that I learned about investing all these years is that you need to be calm (know yourself well), control your emotions, do not panic and follow the herd if you have the holding power. Of course, don’t follow the herd and buy into everything too worse still at the peak, buy only when it is value for money. The same principles can be applied to investments in properties. I would say my investments had been giving me decent annualised returns around 7% to 10% all these years despite all the various crisis.

[Kelonguni]

Steady and salute!

Your 2 cents very valuable and wise indeed. Similar thoughts as me.

Let me share my 2 cents too with my own experience. I could have gone on to work my way up to senior management position back then as my boss recognised my contributions but decided enough of the work stress and lack of time to spend with wife and my young kids is not worth the sacrifice. Decided then that the best way to generate extra income was to focus and look at different types of investments and what suits my risk appetite. Read up on many investment books and researched to educate myself, because formal schooling does not teach about financial discipline and investment to the average person.

Rode through the ups and downs of the markets during Asian Financial Crisis, SARS, US Sep 11 attacks, US subprime crisis, EURO financial crisis, etc. The one big thing that I learned about investing all these years is that you need to be calm (know yourself well), control your emotions, do not panic and follow the herd if you have the holding power. Of course, don’t follow the herd and buy into everything too worse still at the peak, buy only when it is value for money. The same principles can be applied to investments in properties. I would say my investments had been giving me decent annualised returns around 7% to 10% all these years despite all the various crisis.

[Citizen]

Steady and salute!

Master Kelonguni and WL88, I didn't see any things extraordinary, my Parents and Parents in law made twice from their HDB flats. They were not even educated and dun even understood what were SARS, AFC, DOT.COM etc. Did Master WL88 park his money else where and made a lot of money or just Property again.

[watchlist88]

Master Kelonguni and WL88, I didn't see any things extraordinary, my Parents and Parents in law made twice from their HDB flats. They were not even educated and dun even understood what were SARS, AFC, DOT.COM etc. Did Master WL88 park his money else where and made a lot of money or just Property again.

It is true that our parents generation had it good for property prices, whether HDB or private houses because Singapore progressed from 3rd world to 1st world in past 50 years. It went on a steep upwards curve as economy progressed and incomes rose. Now that we are already 1st world nation, there is the term called “point of diminishing returns with even much more efforts needed”. I akin it to an Olympic swimming champion trying to break his own record by just 0.5 second or 1 second but had to put in lots more commitment, training and discipline.

Look at the pricing of new BTO, EC or private houses now and I can only say IMHO that the upwards curve is going to be gradual if even at all to be affordable for majority, after the dust has settled over next few years. But like I said earlier, nobody can forsee the future it is just some educated guesses I suppose at this point as there are many factors affecting property prices, whether internal or external environment conditions.

For the record, I actually made my monies by parking in various instruments ranging from long term (for high risk types), medium term (average risk) to short term (low risk), not so much on property though.

[Arcachon]

It is true that our parents generation had it good for property prices, whether HDB or private houses because Singapore progressed from 3rd world to 1st world in past 50 years. It went on a steep upwards curve as economy progressed and incomes rose. Now that we are already 1st world nation, there is the term called “point of diminishing returns with even much more efforts needed”. I akin it to an Olympic swimming champion trying to break his own record by just 0.5 second or 1 second but had to put in lots more commitment, training and discipline.

Look at the pricing of new BTO, EC or private houses now and I can only say IMHO that the upwards curve is going to be gradual if even at all to be affordable for majority, after the dust has settled over next few years. But like I said earlier, nobody can forsee the future it is just some educated guesses I suppose at this point as there are many factors affecting property prices, whether internal or external environment conditions.

What I see now is the same when they start to build the circle line. I told myself when the circle line is operating the price of the property will increase.

What we have now is controlled property price, leave it to free market and the price will not be so low.

LKY did a lot of good things but things may be different when they start to lose even with all the good things given to the people.

Money have to come from somewhere and the future of property price is going to be up.

Olympic swimming champion is limited by the rule same as property limited by CM.

Remove the rule, new record will be broken.

[Citizen]

Master WL88 thank you for your reply. I have tried many investment instruments but none beat all those I know who have invested in local properties. From what I know, some are not even educated not to mention wise and savvy. Just blindly buy once they have the money. Can we simply say that property investment dun really need smart , wise and educated. It is a non sophisticated and intricate investment instrument, so long you have money and confidence. Perhaps you know better. I 'm here to learn. Thank You.