EC or Freehold private 2015 onwards

[Montaigne]

Think now, many are eligible for EC. So it's no longer comparing EC vs private LH condo, but rather EC vs FH condo.

I think if choosing between EC vs private LH in same area, the answer is clear cut. Choose EC. However, what would be the wiser choice between EC and freehold private same area, Assuming psf of EC around 700psf, freehold 1100psf same location, size etc?

Hope for some non biased insights.

Sorry double post as i posted in wrong thread. Can't delete that thread.

[Arcachon]

Depend on what you buy for, investment or self stay.

For investment, what is the time, 5, 10, 20 40.....

Then depends on what do you have, what is your monthly salary etc.

Maybe you can be more specific.

[pluto]

If comparing just PSF price, cannot complain, EC bigger, cheaper and better for bigger families. Now It's rare to even see Freehold, how to compare.

Ec is strictly own stay, can't buy another property for investment or sell for 9 years ( 4 year construction)
Quality is very different. Not only furnishings but overall quality of the entire development, I been to a EC showflat last month, PVC door. LOL

To me, all depends on quality, now you want cheap, there's cheap, you want expensive, there's plenty, no need to debate which is better is which you like better.
Of course you buy cheap, don't expect expensive.

[Montaigne]

I meant those eligible for EC, income below 14k. For own stay, but ultimately housing is still an investment. Retirement will downgrade to hdb and cash out. Cos am thinking. Now for those eligible for EC, will there be anyone buying LH private for long term investment cum own stay? I doubt. So unless it's something different, like FH status which EC lack. So is it worth getting a FH over EC in such a case say psf difference of $400?

[Kelonguni]

EC and FH condo both usually are not in the more central locations. Else for FH near central locations can be very expensive or very old. The land value is attractive like good Art I agree.

House as investment - only for multiple properties. So does EC or FH or LH condo help achieve investment objectives? It depends.

I meant those eligible for EC, income below 14k. For own stay, but ultimately housing is still an investment. Retirement will downgrade to hdb and cash out. Cos am thinking. Now for those eligible for EC, will there be anyone buying LH private for long term investment cum own stay? I doubt. So unless it's something different, like FH status which EC lack. So is it worth getting a FH over EC in such a case say psf difference of $400?

[propertycarrots]

IMO:

-EC vs 99LH same age, same location difference 15% +/-. 99LH vs FH same age, same location difference 15% +/-

-700psf EC vs 1100 psf 99LH PC : EC wins

- Additionally even if you have extra cash to buy 2x PC (1 stay 1 invest) as per the article today: http://www.straitstimes.com/business...ty#xtor=CS1-10, unless the investment unit can hit a min of 5% yield, I dont see this as a viable option

The above should apply for both for stay and/or investment

[Arcachon]

I meant those eligible for EC, income below 14k. For own stay, but ultimately housing is still an investment. Retirement will downgrade to hdb and cash out. Cos am thinking. Now for those eligible for EC, will there be anyone buying LH private for long term investment cum own stay? I doubt. So unless it's something different, like FH status which EC lack. So is it worth getting a FH over EC in such a case say psf difference of $400?

You are right if EC and LH is side by side, but most of the time they are way apart.

Maybe you can show me any EC near Southbank LH, hope you can find one.

Although Singapore is so......... big.

https://www.google.fr/maps?espv=2&q=...IVyKsaCh3gwQAE

[Sandiwara]

If comparing just PSF price, cannot complain, EC bigger, cheaper and better for bigger families. Now It's rare to even see Freehold, how to compare.

Ec is strictly own stay, can't buy another property for investment or sell for 9 years ( 4 year construction)
Quality is very different. Not only furnishings but overall quality of the entire development, I been to a EC showflat last month, PVC door. LOL

To me, all depends on quality, now you want cheap, there's cheap, you want expensive, there's plenty, no need to debate which is better is which you like better.
Of course you buy cheap, don't expect expensive.

I agree. It is never Apple to apple comparison

[Montaigne]

IMO:

-EC vs 99LH same age, same location difference 15% +/-. 99LH vs FH same age, same location difference 15% +/-

-700psf EC vs 1100 psf 99LH PC : EC wins

I agree EC wins in above example. What I meant is if the PC is FREEHOLD, not LH. EC 700psf vs FREEHOLD PC 1100psf? Which will u choose?

[Montaigne]

You are right if EC and LH is side by side, but most of the time they are way apart.

Maybe you can show me any EC near Southbank LH, hope you can find one.

Although Singapore is so......... big.

https://www.google.fr/maps?espv=2&q=...IVyKsaCh3gwQAE

Example will be Mi Casa and Rain forest. Both LH tho.

[irisng]

If comparing just PSF price, cannot complain, EC bigger, cheaper and better for bigger families. Now It's rare to even see Freehold, how to compare.

Ec is strictly own stay, can't buy another property for investment or sell for 9 years ( 4 year construction)
Quality is very different. Not only furnishings but overall quality of the entire development, I been to a EC showflat last month, PVC door. LOL

To me, all depends on quality, now you want cheap, there's cheap, you want expensive, there's plenty, no need to debate which is better is which you like better.
Of course you buy cheap, don't expect expensive.

I thought EC owners can sell their condo after 5 years but only to the locals and after 10 years can sell to foreigners. Is it that the law has changed?

You mean the main door is PVC? Very surprisingly, I'm staying in EC but all my doors are made of solid woods and main door is very heavy, is it nowadays in order to save cost, they use such a cheap materials?

[irisng]

IMHO, I think whether EC or FH, it depends on your liking, preference and budget. Recently I have a new neighbour (not in the same block), she told me that she had sold her LH private condo (which is near to shopping malls, bus interchange and future MRT) and bought this EC (which do not have the same amenities as her previous condo) but near to market. I asked her why she wanted to change and she said because this EC is bigger as compared to her previous condo, she needs a bigger space.

[Arcachon]

I thought EC owners can sell their condo after 5 years but only to the locals and after 10 years can sell to foreigners. Is it that the law has changed?

You mean the main door is PVC? Very surprisingly, I'm staying in EC but all my doors are made of solid woods and main door is very heavy, is it nowadays in order to save cost, they use such a cheap materials?

Wow, main Door PVC. Must be fire rated PVC super strong PVC.

[Arcachon]

Example will be Mi Casa and Rain forest. Both LH tho.

Now I am confuse, what are you trying to find out.

[pluto]

I thought EC owners can sell their condo after 5 years but only to the locals and after 10 years can sell to foreigners. Is it that the law has changed?

You mean the main door is PVC? Very surprisingly, I'm staying in EC but all my doors are made of solid woods and main door is very heavy, is it nowadays in order to save cost, they use such a cheap materials?

Yes the EC showflat I viewed had PVC doors, the agent was honest when I asked. I don't want to name to offend the owners of the project here. They know
9 years from sales and purchase agreement, 4 years for Ec to build and 5 years occupancy to sell

Not only finishings and overall quality. ECs now have over 1000 + units. It's not exclusive to me if the development is so big and after 5 years of occupancy, prices will be competitive if 100-200 of the 1000 wants to sell, supply more than demand, buyers can haggle to their maximum advantage, I advise my friends to take the better facing in EC if the price difference is not that much and the main draw for EC is the space.

I agree It all depends on your own set of criteria and budget like so many here insist on near mrt, I avoid near mrt projects, i want smth of quality and exclusivity while still in suburban area.
It really depends on your needs and wants. Everyone is different.

[propertycarrots]

I agree EC wins in above example. What I meant is if the PC is FREEHOLD, not LH. EC 700psf vs FREEHOLD PC 1100psf? Which will u choose?

If I am in your situation, how I will consider my option will be that I am looking at a 400psf difference - between EC 99LH and FH PC, similar size and location. In fact after 5yrs I am able to sell my EC as a "99LH PC" status and using the 15% difference as a guideline between a 99LH and FH PC within the area, it would make better sense to buy the EC.
Besides if the area has tons of 99LH and only a couple of FH condos, why bother paying the premium for the 400psf or $400k (assume 1k sqft). With the extra savings and 5yrs later I am able to buy a SECOND condo either for stay or rent.

The key to getting into the property game is that you need at least 2 or more condos ASAP depending on the market situation and your cash holdings

Makes sense?

[henryhk]

I agree EC wins in above example. What I meant is if the PC is FREEHOLD, not LH. EC 700psf vs FREEHOLD PC 1100psf? Which will u choose?

U should ask which one gives u better value next time.....like nearer mrt, is it an apartment or condo with full facilities, rental next time....most EC tend to be far away from mrt....and freehold if not easily accessible also no advantage....don't based on just pricing

[Montaigne]

As a local, I won't buy a resale EC for sure. It's either a new EC or resale/ new FREEHOLD condo. I have been discussing this with a few friends ever since EC income ceiling increase. Those who owned EC will say EC best, those who own FH will said FH best since it's freehold. Some those who own LH private jumped saying why measure come so late, some LH private owners still prefer PC over EC for Ego reasons, as u know, u can't brag about having an EC as a PC for at least 10 years. So I think I am having lots of biased views.

But in my opinion, i will only compare EC vs FH, not LH. Cos I will not get a 99LH at a premium if i can get it dirt cheap as EC. For EC, if I were to sell in 5 years, it will be to Iocals only. And most local will not buy resale EC of 5 years unless price is attractive enough. That will make a 5 year old EC less profitable vs a 10 yr old one if I am owner. So think EC upside still v much limited if location is not like that of Nuovo.

FH gives status and capital appreciation over LH, let's not talk about rental since it's for own stay. As for second property, think regardless EC or FH, still can afford 2nd property in future. But in today's mkt, property rental no longer as attractive investment. Gives less than 2% yield generally. EC location hard to rent as well. Any Condo unless within 5 mins walk to MRT, Think quite hard to rent for good yield.

So generally, i m not planning on 2nd property as of now for investment purposes, will rather invest in something else. So EC or FH is still a question mark. But I am steered towards FH since my biggest purpose is own stay, wait for enbloc, downgrade hdb or PC to retire.

[Montaigne]

As a local, I won't buy a resale EC for sure. It's either a new EC or resale/ new FREEHOLD condo. I have been discussing this with a few friends ever since EC income ceiling increase. Those who owned EC will say EC best, those who own FH will said FH best since it's freehold. Some those who own LH private jumped saying why measure come so late, some LH private owners still prefer PC over EC for Ego reasons, as u know, u can't brag about having an EC as a PC for at least 10 years. So I think I am having lots of biased views.

But in my opinion, i will only compare EC vs FH, not LH. Cos I will not get a 99LH at a premium if i can get it dirt cheap as EC. For EC, if I were to sell in 5 years, it will be to Iocals only. And most local will not buy resale EC of 5 years unless price is attractive enough. That will make a 5 year old EC less profitable vs a 10 yr old one if I am owner. So think EC upside still v much limited if location is not like that of Nuovo.

FH gives status and capital appreciation over LH, let's not talk about rental since it's for own stay. As for second property, think regardless EC or FH, still can afford 2nd property in future. But in today's mkt, property rental no longer as attractive investment. Gives less than 2% yield generally. EC location hard to rent as well. Any Condo unless within 5 mins walk to MRT, Think quite hard to rent for good yield.

So generally, i m not planning on 2nd property as of now for investment purposes, will rather invest in something else. So EC or FH is still a question mark. But I am steered towards FH since my biggest purpose is own stay, wait for enbloc, downgrade hdb or PC to retire.

[Montaigne]

My point is in a case like this, nobody will buy the PC lah. Unless mi casa is FH, right?

[Montaigne]

IMHO, I think whether EC or FH, it depends on your liking, preference and budget. Recently I have a new neighbour (not in the same block), she told me that she had sold her LH private condo (which is near to shopping malls, bus interchange and future MRT) and bought this EC (which do not have the same amenities as her previous condo) but near to market. I asked her why she wanted to change and she said because this EC is bigger as compared to her previous condo, she needs a bigger space.

That's a downgrade to me. And think very rare will people do this, so not a good example why we should choose EC over FH PC. I am a FH advocate, so btw FH and LH99 private, will choose FH. But with the option of EC now, I am attracted by the much lower price that MIGHT make EC a better choice.

[pluto]

As a local, I won't buy a resale EC for sure. It's either a new EC or resale/ new FREEHOLD condo. I have been discussing this with a few friends ever since EC income ceiling increase. Those who owned EC will say EC best, those who own FH will said FH best since it's freehold. Some those who own LH private jumped saying why measure come so late, some LH private owners still prefer PC over EC for Ego reasons, as u know, u can't brag about having an EC as a PC for at least 10 years. So I think I am having lots of biased views.

But in my opinion, i will only compare EC vs FH, not LH. Cos I will not get a 99LH at a premium if i can get it dirt cheap as EC. For EC, if I were to sell in 5 years, it will be to Iocals only. And most local will not buy resale EC of 5 years unless price is attractive enough. That will make a 5 year old EC less profitable vs a 10 yr old one if I am owner. So think EC upside still v much limited if location is not like that of Nuovo.

FH gives status and capital appreciation over LH, let's not talk about rental since it's for own stay. As for second property, think regardless EC or FH, still can afford 2nd property in future. But in today's mkt, property rental no longer as attractive investment. Gives less than 2% yield generally. EC location hard to rent as well. Any Condo unless within 5 mins walk to MRT, Think quite hard to rent for good yield.

So generally, i m not planning on 2nd property as of now for investment purposes, will rather invest in something else. So EC or FH is still a question mark. But I am steered towards FH since my biggest purpose is own stay, wait for enbloc, downgrade hdb or PC to retire.

What is it are you EXACTLY trying to say?
Nowadays FH prices are factored in at future prices and significantly more than PC.
PC over EC just for ego? what twisted theory?!


Also Speaking of Mi casa and Rainforest, what is it that you want to compare or talk about?

Micasa is PC launched 2 years earlier sold at 600-750 PSF, Rainforest EC sold at 750- 900 psf.
Micasa is PC that looks like EC, Rainforest is EC that looks like PC.
Micasa quality is worse than EC, I been to both developments, just my view but why are you comparing?

I believe Micasa owners will say that the EC beside is expensive and they got a good deal and the Rainforest owners will say that their quality is better.
BUT I STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY ARE YOU COMPARING THESE 2 PROJECTS? ABOVE IS NOT TO CRITIC ANY PROJECT BUT JUST TO SHARE WHAT I KNOW AND FEEL, PURELY FACTS AND MY OWN OPINION ONLY.

[Kelonguni]

That's a downgrade to me. And think very rare will people do this, so not a good example why we should choose EC over FH PC. I am a FH advocate, so btw FH and LH99 private, will choose FH. But with the option of EC now, I am attracted by the much lower price that MIGHT make EC a better choice.

OK let's use your example of 700 PSF and 1100 PSF. Assume size of 1200 sqft. Basic costs are 840K (EC) versus 1.32M (FH). If same locality with similar attributes.

So the downpayments plus buyers stamp duties are roughly 193K versus 300K, a difference of 107K to begin with. The remaining 80% are 647K (EC) versus 1.02M (FH), assuming the buyer(s) qualify for 80% loan.

Assuming interest rates of 2.6% over 25 years, the monthly sums work out to be $2,935 (EC) versus $4,623 (FH), difference of about $1,700 every month over 25 years. For the EC, it could be comfortably paid by combining two person's CPF. The final paid sums including downpayment after 25 years are 1.07MIL (EC) versus 1.69MIL (FH).

So the question to ask yourself would be, with additional 107K at the beginning and also $1,700 every month, can I do something else? Or do you prefer to bank on the FH status and rising land costs over the 25 years to outgrow the difference? 25 years later after the mortgage is redeemed, the EC may be left with 70 years. What would the differences in price be like? You can compare a current LH 70 years to a current FH to gauge, say maybe Park West to maybe Gloria Mansion or Palm Green. Park West location is arguably better, but Gloria Mansion is about 10 years younger, and Palm Green is about 15 years younger. I do admit its very hard to get Apple to Apple comparisons, as the facilities and other attributes might differ significantly as well.

Your answers will help you decide which to go for.

Again, the analysis completely takes alternative (maybe better) locations of LH PC into considerations, which I do urge you to consider as well for their unique propositions.

[Sandiwara]

OK let's use your example of 700 PSF and 1100 PSF. Assume size of 1200 sqft. Basic costs are 840K (EC) versus 1.32M (FH). If same locality with similar attributes.

So the downpayments plus buyers stamp duties are roughly 193K versus 300K, a difference of 107K to begin with. The remaining 80% are 647K (EC) versus 1.02M (FH), assuming the buyer(s) qualify for 80% loan.

Assuming interest rates of 2.6% over 25 years, the monthly sums work out to be $2,935 (EC) versus $4,623 (FH), difference of about $1,700 every month over 25 years. For the EC, it could be comfortably paid by combining two person's CPF. The final paid sums including downpayment after 25 years are 1.07MIL (EC) versus 1.69MIL (FH).

So the question to ask yourself would be, with additional 107K at the beginning and also $1,700 every month, can I do something else? Or do you prefer to bank on the FH status and rising land costs over the 25 years to outgrow the difference? 25 years later after the mortgage is redeemed, the EC may be left with 70 years. What would the differences in price be like? You can compare a current LH 70 years to a current FH to gauge, say maybe Park West to maybe Gloria Mansion or Palm Green. Park West location is arguably better, but Gloria Mansion is about 10 years younger, and Palm Green is about 15 years younger. I do admit its very hard to get Apple to Apple comparisons, as the facilities and other attributes might differ significantly as well.

Your answers will help you decide which to go for.

Again, the analysis completely takes alternative (maybe better) locations of LH PC into considerations, which I do urge you to consider as well for their unique propositions.

Since you already mention many calculation, I wonder how much we get after 25 years if we park $1,700 every month into CPF

[Kelonguni]

Since you already mention many calculation, I wonder how much we get after 25 years if we park $1,700 every month into CPF

The principal amount is 510K, the interest is 198K, and maturity value is 708K, assuming 2.5% interest annually.

[Montaigne]

What is it are you EXACTLY trying to say?
Nowadays FH prices are factored in at future prices and significantly more than PC.
PC over EC just for ego? what twisted theory?!


Also Speaking of Mi casa and Rainforest, what is it that you want to compare or talk about?

Micasa is PC launched 2 years earlier sold at 600-750 PSF, Rainforest EC sold at 750- 900 psf.
Micasa is PC that looks like EC, Rainforest is EC that looks like PC.
Micasa quality is worse than EC, I been to both developments, just my view but why are you comparing?

I believe Micasa owners will say that the EC beside is expensive and they got a good deal and the Rainforest owners will say that their quality is better.
BUT I STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY ARE YOU COMPARING THESE 2 PROJECTS? ABOVE IS NOT TO CRITIC ANY PROJECT BUT JUST TO SHARE WHAT I KNOW AND FEEL, PURELY FACTS AND MY OWN OPINION ONLY.

Hi Pluto,
U asked if it is possible for both EC and PC to stand side by side. I was just quoting an example that this is possible. Assuming if both launched about similar time, EC will win. My point is it will be a no brainer to choose Ec over LH PC. But it will be a different story if Mi casa is FH. That tenure status will make the 2 development different.

For own stay, I see PC and EC no difference, if located nearby, so will def choose EC. But if PC is FH, it becomes a different story. That is what i am trying to say.

[Montaigne]

OK let's use your example of 700 PSF and 1100 PSF. Assume size of 1200 sqft. Basic costs are 840K (EC) versus 1.32M (FH). If same locality with similar attributes.

So the downpayments plus buyers stamp duties are roughly 193K versus 300K, a difference of 107K to begin with. The remaining 80% are 647K (EC) versus 1.02M (FH), assuming the buyer(s) qualify for 80% loan.

Assuming interest rates of 2.6% over 25 years, the monthly sums work out to be $2,935 (EC) versus $4,623 (FH), difference of about $1,700 every month over 25 years. For the EC, it could be comfortably paid by combining two person's CPF. The final paid sums including downpayment after 25 years are 1.07MIL (EC) versus 1.69MIL (FH).

So the question to ask yourself would be, with additional 107K at the beginning and also $1,700 every month, can I do something else? Or do you prefer to bank on the FH status and rising land costs over the 25 years to outgrow the difference? 25 years later after the mortgage is redeemed, the EC may be left with 70 years. What would the differences in price be like? You can compare a current LH 70 years to a current FH to gauge, say maybe Park West to maybe Gloria Mansion or Palm Green. Park West location is arguably better, but Gloria Mansion is about 10 years younger, and Palm Green is about 15 years younger. I do admit its very hard to get Apple to Apple comparisons, as the facilities and other attributes might differ significantly as well.

Your answers will help you decide which to go for.

Again, the analysis completely takes alternative (maybe better) locations of LH PC into considerations, which I do urge you to consider as well for their unique propositions.

Thanks for the detailed analysis, m trying to digest the info. So for retirement cash out plan, do u recommend FH or EC? I m thinking tho FH has huge start up cost, but by enbloc timing, the FH will be worth more than LH cost savings vs FH during initial start up? M i right to assume that?

[Montaigne]

PC over EC just for ego? what twisted theory .

That's from a friend who own hedges park. While we thought he could have gotten an EC for the price n location he paid. He still think that having an EC is a class lower in status vs PC. He doesn't like it when people ask and he has to say he bought an EC, he has ego problem and do not like the idea of a lower class and exposed his low income status(<14k). Probably to him, EC is honda, PC is BMW. So in fact there are really many funny funny thoughts of how people view different status of property here. For his case, investment is in face value only. He doesn't care about returns in real.

BTW, m curious. For EC owners, after 10 years, when people ask what property u staying, will u say EC or PC by then? Since it has become PC already, do u just said it's private property if people asked? Or still u will say it's EC?

[Kelonguni]

Thanks for the detailed analysis, m trying to digest the info. So for retirement cash out plan, do u recommend FH or EC? I m thinking tho FH has huge start up cost, but by enbloc timing, the FH will be worth more than LH cost savings vs FH during initial start up? M i right to assume that?

Firstly, based on the costs, I will say comparing HDB with EC, HDB is still superior.

Assuming one cannot buy HDB due to income, the most important attribute to consider in terms of property own stay or investment will be location (as a function of price). Why do some HDBs sell close to or over a million? In my calculations, where you work and your family situation has to be considered. What others deem to be of lower value could be higher value to you and family.

What is most precious about FH status is the unlimited land (again subject to location attributes for long term value). The facilities and the building will depreciate similarly to that in a PC or EC. Maintenance costs will go up similarly. The number of people willing to pay you full price for the land and part price for the apartment will drop significantly once the property ages.

So do factor in the most important attribute of properties in your decision, which is location and not status of the land.

If you have specific examples in your consideration and elaboration of a person's circumstance, it will help in how we examine the situation.

[Montaigne]

Firstly, based on the costs, I will say comparing HDB with EC, HDB is still superior.

Assuming one cannot buy HDB due to income, the most important attribute to consider in terms of property own stay or investment will be location (as a function of price). Why do some HDBs sell close to or over a million? In my calculations, where you work and your family situation has to be considered. What others deem to be of lower value could be higher value to you and family.

What is most precious about FH status is the unlimited land (again subject to location attributes for long term value). The facilities and the building will depreciate similarly to that in a PC or EC. Maintenance costs will go up similarly. The number of people willing to pay you full price for the land and part price for the apartment will drop significantly once the property ages.

So do factor in the most important attribute of properties in your decision, which is location and not status of the land.

If you have specific examples in your consideration and elaboration of a person's circumstance, it will help in how we examine the situation.

Ok, since I have been to a few show flats over the years, and has expressed deep interest in this two project in particular, but still no action due to personal reasons. And both are sold out. Nevertheless, would like to hear your opinion for the 2.
Topiary EC vs promenade@pelikat. Both in heartlands, not too far from each other. Can't quote new ones cos can't find any good ones to compare recently. So perhaps I can hear your views on the two project which is a wiser move? The above is Just an example for future possible considerations.