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Thread: The Parc (D5, Freehold, Chip Eng Seng & Lehman Brothers)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sleek, 12 February 2010 3.06 pm
    According to Caspian thread, firesales coming liao.
    The Parc Condo got fire sale meh? Where?


    The Parc Condo
    Address ............................ psf ............. Area ......... Price ........ Contract Date
    9 West Coast Walk #07-17 ...... $929 psf ...... 980 sqft ...... $910k .... 22 Jan 10
    3 West Coast Walk #16-05 ...... $918 psf .... 1421 sqft .... $1,304k .... 30 Dec 09
    3 West Coast Walk #17-05 ...... $915 psf .... 1421 sqft .... $1,300k .... 28 Dec 09
    3 West Coast Walk #17-08 ...... $907 psf .... 1302 sqft .... $1,180k .... 23 Dec 09
    3 West Coast Walk #18-08 ...... $888 psf .... 1302 sqft .... $1,156k ..... 8 Dec 09
    7 West Coast Walk #16-13 .. $1,079 psf ...... 667 sqft ...... $720k ...... 8 Dec 09

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    Quote Originally Posted by sleek
    According to Caspian thread, firesales coming liao.
    hmm...this is getting interesting...if there are firesales going on here, it will definitely have ripple effect to The Vision! How can The Vision be selling at above $1,000psf with fire sale going on here.

    The location of this development (with freehold status) is definitely better than The Vision.

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    The Vision is selling the villas at about $3.5million each.

    The 4 room condo units are $1.8million to $2 million.

    Way out...

    Anyone selling Parc Condo units???

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reporter
    The Parc Condo got fire sale meh? Where?


    The Parc Condo
    Address ............................ psf ............. Area ......... Price ........ Contract Date
    9 West Coast Walk #07-17 ...... $929 psf ...... 980 sqft ...... $910k .... 22 Jan 10
    3 West Coast Walk #16-05 ...... $918 psf .... 1421 sqft .... $1,304k .... 30 Dec 09
    3 West Coast Walk #17-05 ...... $915 psf .... 1421 sqft .... $1,300k .... 28 Dec 09
    3 West Coast Walk #17-08 ...... $907 psf .... 1302 sqft .... $1,180k .... 23 Dec 09
    3 West Coast Walk #18-08 ...... $888 psf .... 1302 sqft .... $1,156k ..... 8 Dec 09
    7 West Coast Walk #16-13 .. $1,079 psf ...... 667 sqft ...... $720k ...... 8 Dec 09
    this is December caveats, and the 1079psf is for smaller unit, agent say smaller unit priced more higher. the trend, from the above caveats and recent discussion suggest that the psf is at or even below launch price. wah, those people sell below launch price, isn't it negative equity? frankly, a 3 bedder at that kind of location going for 1.2mil is just a bit crazy. think i earn 12k a mth also need 30 yrs to pay back. if what agent say is true and people really panicking at the Parc (TOP coming very soon) then I dunno how low prices will plunge. we'll see!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sfwoo
    The Vision is selling the villas at about $3.5million each.

    The 4 room condo units are $1.8million to $2 million.

    Way out...

    Anyone selling Parc Condo units???
    i think this will be a test case if speculators are still 'alive' and can keep biting the high prices. it's like stacking cards, it depends on how high u can stack before things become delicate....and then.....crash.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ppc88
    this is December caveats, and the 1079psf is for smaller unit, agent say smaller unit priced more higher. the trend, from the above caveats and recent discussion suggest that the psf is at or even below launch price. wah, those people sell below launch price, isn't it negative equity? frankly, a 3 bedder at that kind of location going for 1.2mil is just a bit crazy. think i earn 12k a mth also need 30 yrs to pay back. if what agent say is true and people really panicking at the Parc (TOP coming very soon) then I dunno how low prices will plunge. we'll see!
    my fren just sold his 3+S unit at 989psf...plunge?? we'll see...

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    What's the typical launched psf of this development? I read somewhere in this forum it started at 900psf, went to 1200 psf, and even touched 1700 psf during the super peak. Is this true? This location can hit 1700 psf?

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    I think the highest transacted during 2008 peak was 1150psf, thereabouts. 1700 psf is impossible for this location now.. =)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reporter
    Quote Originally Posted by sleek
    According to Caspian thread, firesales coming liao.
    The Parc Condo got fire sale meh? Where?
    Quote Originally Posted by Avatar
    hmm...this is getting interesting...if there are firesales going on here, it will definitely have ripple effect to The Vision! How can The Vision be selling at above $1,000psf with fire sale going on here.

    The location of this development (with freehold status) is definitely better than The Vision.
    To test whether the fire of firesales is more powerful, or Propertism, which states that property prices will always go up in the long term, let's pit Propertism against Saddam Hussein's fire.

    The Straits Times 3 Sep 1980, Westpeak Condominium Apartment 1,900 sq ft, $360,000. Completion 1982



    22 Sep 1980, The Iran–Iraq War began when Iraq invaded Iran on 22 September 1980 following a long history of border disputes.



    Iraq launched a full-scale invasion of Iran on 22 September 1980. On 22 September 1980, the Iraqi air force attacked Iran, attacking ten airfields inside Iran.

    On 24 September, though, the Iranian navy attacked Basra and, on the way, had destroyed two oil terminals near the Iraqi port of Fao, which reduced Iraq's ability to export oil.

    The Straits Times 23 Sep 1980, Iran-Iraq War a Threat to Singapore Shipping Services



    The Straits Times 27 Dec 1980, "1981 will be a gloomy year: Chok Tong"



    28 April 2006

    311,829 sq. ft. Westpeak Condominium Sold for S$206.088m - The Largest Private Freehold Collective Sale Site to be Sold in Recent Years

    Savills is pleased to announce that Westpeak Condominium has been sold to Chip Eng Leong Enterprise Pte Ltd (a subsidiary of Chip Eng Seng Corporation Limited) for S$206.088 million.

    Built more than 20 years ago, Westpeak Condominium has 152 strata titled apartments and townhouses. The site is nestled amongst several public and private residential developments such as Hong Leong Gardens Condominium and newly developed Monterey Park.

    Each Westpeak Condominium owner is expected to receive between S$1.29 million and S$1.94 million depending on the size of their units. The last transaction of an apartment at Westpeak was at S$900,000 in Nov 2004.

    Business Times 9 Aug 2007

    70% of The Parc Condo taken up in one week

    A JOINT venture between Chip Eng Seng and Lehman Brothers has sold about 70 per cent of their 659-unit freehold project, The Parc Condominium, at West Coast Walk, over the past week.

    The Parc Condo: Average prices have risen from the low-$800 psf range initally to the high-$800 psf range now.

    Chip Eng Seng and Lehman Brothers are developing The Parc on the former Westpeak site.
    Last edited by jlrx; 15-02-10 at 03:10.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xiaoyuan
    I think the highest transacted during 2008 peak was 1150psf, thereabouts. 1700 psf is impossible for this location now.. =)
    Tks for the info. Was wondering how can west coast hit 1700 so high?

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    No problem. Maybe it will hit 1700psf in 10yrs time. Haha.

    Then and again who knows? Although many are claiming current prices are too high, it's actually at 50-60% of 1998 prices after you adjusted for inflation and income increases. I guess the best example of this is that HDB prices have doubled over the last decade.

    My 2 cents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Avatar
    hmm...this is getting interesting...if there are firesales going on here, it will definitely have ripple effect to The Vision! How can The Vision be selling at above $1,000psf with fire sale going on here.

    The location of this development (with freehold status) is definitely better than The Vision.

    Vision got Seaview nearer to NUS, here got HDB view, that's why the price difference. Freehold or 99 is secondary property is all about location, location and location

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    True. But Parc's location means it's a lot more
    convenient getting around on public transport. Not forgetting it's one of the few freehold in the area that's near to a train station.

    Tbh, I think the sea view at west coast is nothing to sing about either... I think it's overated. If you want seaview, a place in the east would be better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xiaoyuan
    True. But Parc's location means it's a lot more
    convenient getting around on public transport. Not forgetting it's one of the few freehold in the area that's near to a train station.

    Tbh, I think the sea view at west coast is nothing to sing about either... I think it's overated. If you want seaview, a place in the east would be better.

    Honestly speaking for that kind of price i would rather go for Hundred Trees rather than Parc. At least 100 trees feel for like a private estate to me Parc looks more like new HDB those design and build, and it is surrounded by HDB, why would I pay private price to feel like staying in HDB

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    I guess to each his/her preference. Personally, I prefer Parc for it's location. =)

    As for it being like HDB, I do think that the BTO HDBs have pretty good designs. Beating even private housing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xiaoyuan
    I guess to each his/her preference. Personally, I prefer Parc for it's location. =)

    As for it being like HDB, I do think that the BTO HDBs have pretty good designs. Beating even private housing.
    Some condo may looks nice outside but the developer gives you inferior furnishings(e.g. homogenous instead of marble flooring, compressed wood cabinets) or lousy layouts.

    Condo may look nice when it is built but if the maintenance is not done regularly or properly, it will age faster and look uglier than those BTO flats.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cher
    Honestly speaking for that kind of price i would rather go for Hundred Trees rather than Parc. At least 100 trees feel for like a private estate to me Parc looks more like new HDB those design and build, and it is surrounded by HDB, why would I pay private price to feel like staying in HDB
    At the end of the day, I think what's more important is if it looks nice or not. It doesnt matter if it looks like HDB. To me, `looks' like HDB just means HDB has improved its design. I wouldnt like a condo that looks different from HDB but its ugly.

    Of the 4 condos there, I feel carabelle is probably the worst looking of the lot, even if it manages to look different from HDB, its ugly. I have been looking at D5 for awhile and have narrowed my choices to The Parc and 100 Trees. In the end, I feel The Parc is a much better choice as its cheaper at the time of my purchase than 100 trees and I just can't believe CDL would actually maintains its margin by using cheaper materials like laminate floors for such visible furnishings. I can't imagine what about the `hidden' costs savings they have. I also took a walk to the facilities of 100 Tress which is near to the slip road to Clemeni Ave 6 where the current swimming pool of HL Gardens is located, do you know how noisy it is? When the trucks climbs up or down the slip road, its horror Stand at the common corridor of the HDB flat nearest to 100 trees and you will know what I mean.

    I used to like CDL but since The Sail and Citysq Residences, I feel their design and quality has decreased a lot. I mean CSR definitely doesnt look like a HDB flat, but its so awful looking. Blue windows? Blue windows frame

    As for whether a place feels like private or not, really depends on individual. In fact, I'm not even bothered that I'm amongst HDB since its location imo is slightly better than 100 trees being nearer to walk to Clementi central....to be continued....stock mkt open liao

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_duck
    Of the 4 condos there, I feel carabelle is probably the worst looking of the lot, even if it manages to look different from HDB, its ugly.
    Hmm..my colleague mentioned it looks like HDB in private estate but anyway maybe it is ugly looking and he thought it is HDB.

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    Yup all good points. I think at the end of the day it's about getting a place that u like. Each of us would have different preference and requirements. Even living next to a highway, I don't think anyone at infiniti is complaining. If anything, it's fully occupied. =D

    Sure, being among HDB might lose the "private" feel. But if u want to be really exclusive then u should not be looking in these area.

    My friend once mentioned the perks of living near a HDB estate would be the accessibility to amenties, which I think it's very true.

    In short, I think the condos in the West would be good investments for the long term considering the expansion of One North, schools and the future regional hub at Jurong.

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    Some people like exclusiveness while some like to be near amenities... It's all about personal choices. I know pple who don't mind staying far away from crowded areas and do not mind the inconveniences. Personally, i am more of a heartland person who cannot stand not staying near central areas. It's about convenience. Especially with kids around, they have to go to school and come home in their own, I still feel that staying in a not so secluded area has its advantages. At least you are assured that he/she will be safe walking home on his/her own.

    Just my two cents worth...

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    Quote Originally Posted by xiaoyuan
    Even living next to a highway, I don't think anyone at infiniti is complaining. If anything, it's fully occupied. =D
    I pass by the Infiniti everyday, there is one ridiculous unit facing the AYE with huge plants occupying whole balcony, doors and windows shut and curtain fully drawn every single day, must be terrible to live in a flat artificially lit all the time and no fresh air, owner must be regreting buying the unit but maybe have to sell at loss.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_duck
    ...the facilities of 100 Tress which is near to the slip road to Clemeni Ave 6 where the current swimming pool of HL Gardens is located, do you know how noisy it is? When the trucks climbs up or down the slip road, its horror
    this point is quite true. u can go to the infiniti main swimming pool/BBQ area and feel it. so noisy, it's unbearable. Really. constant humming.

    the other side of Infiniti, on the other hand, is very nice, peaceful and quiet.

    I'm not familiar with the Parc's location wrt the AYE. Will it be noisy or not ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by xebay11
    I pass by the Infiniti everyday, there is one ridiculous unit facing the AYE with huge plants occupying whole balcony, doors and windows shut and curtain fully drawn every single day, must be terrible to live in a flat artificially lit all the time and no fresh air, owner must be regreting buying the unit but maybe have to sell at loss.
    At a loss for sure, the properties along West Coast at AYE seem not to have much upsides. And the new govt measures mean any one who buy now cannot sell within a yr, so less speculators could go into sub-sale mkt. plus now bank loan rule adjustment means demand could fall, so I predict the price for The Parc, Hundred Trees, Infiniti, Carabelle and Botannia could fall 10-25%.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ppc88
    At a loss for sure, the properties along West Coast at AYE seem not to have much upsides. And the new govt measures mean any one who buy now cannot sell within a yr, so less speculators could go into sub-sale mkt. plus now bank loan rule adjustment means demand could fall, so I predict the price for The Parc, Hundred Trees, Infiniti, Carabelle and Botannia could fall 10-25%.
    Yes,speculators will turned into mid - long term investors overnite due to the 1year measurements.

    But it wont deter anyone from buying, if they have the cash and tons of cpf mony and see properties as a money making tools.

    90% loan are suicide case, UNLESS they put 10% as down,and holding the remaining 10% for any emegencies for the next 1-2yrs. Instead of putting all their 20% into the downpayment,while trying to rent out even at low rates.

    Anyway,who will look forward for rental yields instead of capital gains.?
    Last edited by jwong71; 20-02-10 at 03:19.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ppc88
    At a loss for sure, the properties along West Coast at AYE seem not to have much upsides. And the new govt measures mean any one who buy now cannot sell within a yr, so less speculators could go into sub-sale mkt. plus now bank loan rule adjustment means demand could fall, so I predict the price for The Parc, Hundred Trees, Infiniti, Carabelle and Botannia could fall 10-25%.
    LOL no upside and you are still looking for a property there? Seriously, I feel you are just trying to talk down the value of D5 so you could afford one yourself.

    The upside of D5 is clear. The govt over the next 10yrs will be pumping billions into developing the west into a commercial hub (think mini marina bay). If you look at the amount of development in the vicinity, D5 is located in just the right place minus the crowd. D5 is going to look more like D10.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pmet
    LOL no upside and you are still looking for a property there? Seriously, I feel you are just trying to talk down the value of D5 so you could afford one yourself.

    The upside of D5 is clear. The govt over the next 10yrs will be pumping billions into developing the west into a commercial hub (think mini marina bay). If you look at the amount of development in the vicinity, D5 is located in just the right place minus the crowd. D5 is going to look more like D10.
    We'll see! I love the new govt measures!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ppc88
    We'll see! I love the new govt measures!
    These two measures are to prevent over-heating and not drastic measures that will cause a plunge in propery prices. The measures came into place due to strong rebound in January. They hope to see a gradual increase in prices but not a plunge. Hence, prices are expected to go up gradually.

    Election is near, I don't think government will want a plunge in prices.

    My two cents worth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwong71, 20 February 2010 4.11 am
    Yes,speculators will turned into mid - long term investors overnite due to the 1year measurements.

    But it wont deter anyone from buying, if they have the cash and tons of cpf mony and see properties as a money making tools.

    90% loan are suicide case, UNLESS they put 10% as down,and holding the remaining 10% for any emegencies for the next 1-2yrs. Instead of putting all their 20% into the downpayment,while trying to rent out even at low rates.

    Anyway,who will look forward for rental yields instead of capital gains.?
    Actually very few take up 90% loan as banks are quite careful.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Straits Times

    Less than 10% loans over limit
    The Straits Times
    Friday, 19 Febraury 2010, 7.04 pm

    Financial institutions in Singapore have remained prudent in giving out housing loans.

    Currently, less than 10% of housing loans are granted at over the 80% limit, 'although there are signs that more housing loans are originating at higher loan-to-value bands', said a government statement on Friday.

    In a further bid to temper exuberance in the private residential market, the Government will, from Saturday, cap all housing loans at 80% of the total purchase price, from the current 90% limit.

    The lower cap will apply to all housing loans given by financial institutions regulated by the Monetary Authority of Singapore.

    'In line with the objective of ensuring a stable and sustainable property market, lowering the LTV limit sends a clear signal to the financial institutions to maintain credit standards, and encourages greater financial prudence among property purchasers,' said a Government statement on Friday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ppc88, 20 February 2010 6.45 am
    We'll see! I love the new govt measures!
    Yup! good news to me too.
    It is time to remove those weak-holders, who want to flip within a year, from the market. What we want are strong-holders in the market.
    This is exactly what the government is doing - a house-cleaning exercise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Weekend TODAY

    Cooling the property market
    Neo ChaiChin
    Weekend TODAY
    Saturday, 20 February 2010

    With the spectre of a property bubble looming after demand for private housing spiked sharply in January this year - following sharp price increases in the second half of last year - the Government moved swiftly on Friday to cool the market.

    Although property observers were surprised by the timing of the two new measures announced at the end of the trading day, the Government said it preferred to introduce "calibrated measures now to temper sentiments" rather than be forced "to impose more drastic measures after a bubble has formed."

    In its statement on Friday, the National Development Ministry (MND) said firstly, a stamp duty will be imposed on sellers for all residential properties and residential lands bought on Feb 20 and after, and sold within a year of purchase. This is aimed at speculators who flip their properties shortly after purchasing it. Previously, only buyers had to pay stamp duties, which range from 1% to 3% of the purchase price.

    Secondly, financial institutions (FIs) may only extend loans of up to 80% of the value of the property - down from the 90% loan-to-value limit allowed previously. This will apply to all housing loans given by banks and other FIs, but not to those granted by the Housing and Development Board (HDB). But this is unlikely to affect many buyers, as according to MND, fewer than 1 in 10 buyers are currently granted housing loans exceeding 80% of loan-to-value.

    Both measures which take effect on Saturday, come just 5 months after the last round of measures aimed at cooling the overheating property market.

    Property analysts said the timing of the announcement signals the flexibility the Government has given itself to roll out more measures in the coming months should the property market keep heating up.

    "Here, we're dealing with a creature that evolves with every property upturn. So what the Government could do is ... administer a certain remedy and then they wait and see whether that medicine has taken effect," said property lecturer Nicholas Mak of Ngee Ann Polytechnic.

    Deputy chairman of the Government Parliamentary Committee for National Development Lee Bee Wah however felt more could be done, saying she "would like to see a more targeted measures to address the concerns of HDB buyers".

    Will They Work?

    So, how potent is yesterday's dose of "medicine" likely to be? Analysts like Cushman and Wakefield managing director Donald Han said it could cause a 10% to 15% drop in new home sales.

    In the short run, the measures would weed out speculative buyers, said CBRE Research executive director Li Hiaw Ho. "This is because the two rounds of stamp duty while buying and selling within a year are quite punitive."

    However, Mr Mak noted that sellers who stand to make a huge profit from flipping properties might not be deterred by the 3% stamp duty.

    PropNex chief executive Mohamed Ismail felt the effects would be largely psychological. The 80% loan-to-value limit would encourage buyers to exercise financial prudence, for instance.

    But some questioned if the new measures tackle adequately the problem of a warming property market. "The first thing we have to ask is whether (speculation) is a rampant problem. Has the MND any evidence to show that people have been selling properties within a year?" asked Chesterton Suntec International's Colin Tan. The current market situation is the result of "so much money floating around" and people having to find investment opportunities, he reckons.

    Meanwhile, MND has again given the assurance that supply remains adequate. Sites able to yield 10,550 private housing units are already on the Confirmed and Reserve List of the Government Land Sales programme in the first half of this year - the highest supply quantum in programme's history.


    "These measures are likely to be ineffectual because MND has not mentioned any evidence of speculation and hence, there may not much be speculation to begin with."

    - Mr Colin Tan
    . Head, Chesterton Research

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reporter
    Yup! good news to me too.
    It is time to remove those weak-holders, who want to flip within a year, from the market. What we want are strong-holders in the market.
    This is exactly what the government is doing - a house-cleaning exercise.
    Yes.. Time to remove weak holders,to prevent them from causing a panick sell off if they cant hold..

    In another word,to prevent dip in the prices.

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