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Thread: Levy HDB rates or higher to park on private estate roads

  1. #1
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    Default Levy HDB rates or higher to park on private estate roads

    http://www.straitstimes.com/forum/le...e-estate-roads

    Levy HDB rates or higher to park on private estate roads

    Jul 4, 2016


    While carpark charges at HDB estates will increase, with those owning two or more cars paying higher differential rates from Dec 1, those living in private residential estates continue to enjoy year-round free parking regardless of the number of cars they park on public roads outside their homes ("Public parking gets costlier"; last Friday).

    Free parking in and around private estates is subsidised by non-motorists, who also pay for the repair and maintenance of the roads, as well as the daily cleaning of the parking spaces on public roads.

    One of the main reasons the Government wants to raise carpark charges is presumably to make Singapore car-lite ("Govt taking clear stand on curbing car ownership: Experts"; last Friday).

    In contrast, households in private residential estates are car-heavy as the ample free parking space on public roads around their estates allow for multiple-car ownership. This runs counter to the Government's intentions.

    To ensure the equitable sharing of costs and a balanced implementation of the car-lite strategy, the authorities should commence charging for parking spaces at all private residential estates at rates higher than or in line with the increased rates at HDB estates.

    Aaron Ang Chin Guan

  2. #2
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    Ah Guan ah, this is a well known soft heating measure. Anywhere with freer parking will appear more attractive than HDB.
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  3. #3
    teddybear's Avatar
    teddybear is offline Global recession is coming....
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    Ah Guan naive and ignorant, what can we say???

    He doesn't know that the inlet roads outside the private landed properties were built by the developers and the land owned by the developers (not the government), who had already charged the private property owners for those costs i.e. land and road on it? Only these roads then people can park for free (because it really should belong to the private landed owners), ah kong road got free parking meh?!

    The fact that some people (particularly HDB dwellers) park along these roads for free is already trying to take advantage, and now people (presumably HDB dwellers) asking the government to charge these private landed owners twice for the road and car park space that actually is owned by the private owners and not government???

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelonguni View Post
    Ah Guan ah, this is a well known soft heating measure. Anywhere with freer parking will appear more attractive than HDB.
    Quote Originally Posted by reporter2 View Post
    http://www.straitstimes.com/forum/le...e-estate-roads

    Levy HDB rates or higher to park on private estate roads

    Jul 4, 2016


    While carpark charges at HDB estates will increase, with those owning two or more cars paying higher differential rates from Dec 1, those living in private residential estates continue to enjoy year-round free parking regardless of the number of cars they park on public roads outside their homes ("Public parking gets costlier"; last Friday).

    Free parking in and around private estates is subsidised by non-motorists, who also pay for the repair and maintenance of the roads, as well as the daily cleaning of the parking spaces on public roads.

    One of the main reasons the Government wants to raise carpark charges is presumably to make Singapore car-lite ("Govt taking clear stand on curbing car ownership: Experts"; last Friday).

    In contrast, households in private residential estates are car-heavy as the ample free parking space on public roads around their estates allow for multiple-car ownership. This runs counter to the Government's intentions.

    To ensure the equitable sharing of costs and a balanced implementation of the car-lite strategy, the authorities should commence charging for parking spaces at all private residential estates at rates higher than or in line with the increased rates at HDB estates.

    Aaron Ang Chin Guan

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    Ah Guan naive and ignorant, what can we say???

    He doesn't know that the inlet roads outside the private landed properties were built by the developers and the land owned by the developers (not the government), who had already charged the private property owners for those costs i.e. land and road on it? Only these roads then people can park for free (because it really should belong to the private landed owners), ah kong road got free parking meh?!

    The fact that some people (particularly HDB dwellers) park along these roads for free is already trying to take advantage, and now people (presumably HDB dwellers) asking the government to charge these private landed owners twice for the road and car park space that actually is owned by the private owners and not government???
    Katong man loses fight to park in front of own house. Court tells him:
    You must use PARKING LOT
    He's fined $1,400, pays $8,000 legal fees
    HE was surprised to receive a parking summons - after all, he had parked his car in front of his own house.
    By Celine Lim
    19 September 2007

    HE was surprised to receive a parking summons - after all, he had parked his car in front of his own house.

    The first fine was $50, but Mr Seow Hock Hin, 36, felt it was unfair.

    So, instead of paying up, he took his case to the Urban Redevelopment Authority (URA).

    And, in the midst of his appeal, he received another $50 summons for the same offence.

    When the URA rejected his appeal, he decided to take his fight to court. He lost.

    Last Tuesday, Mr Seow was fined $700 each for two charges of not parking his car in a parking lot.

    For each charge, he could have been fined up to $2,000 or jailed up to three months, or both.

    On top of that, he chalked up about $8,000 in legal fees and had to take leave for the one-day trial last Monday.

    Mr Seow, who works in the finance industry, also estimated that the time he spent fighting his case cost him about $10,000 in lost earnings.

    So why not just pay the fines?

    Well, he thought there was nothing wrong with parking in front of his own gate along Marshall Road, near Haig Road in Katong.

    When he was first issued a parking summons on 23 May last year, he thought it was a mistake.

    'I wrote to the URA thinking that if I told them I was the owner of the house which had its entrance blocked by my car, they'd waive the fine.'

    His letter explained that he had parked in front of his own gate along the one-way stretch of Marshall Road.

    He noted that he had parked his car in the same spot without incident since moving into the house in 2003.

    He added that it was 'common' for his neighbours to park in front of their gates, where there are no double yellow lines drawn.

    He sent about eight letters while corresponding with the URA.

    Then, on 5 Aug last year, Mr Seow was again fined $50 for the same parking offence.

    Again, he found it hard to believe that he was at fault.

    He said: 'I thought it was another mistake made by another parking warden.

    'My car was obstructing only the entrance to my house. It was obstructing only me.'

    He said he used to park his car within the compound of his house. But his three dogs kept biting off his licence plates so he decided to park in front of his gate.

    He also believed he was obeying the road markings by the Land Transport Authority (LTA) in parking his car by avoiding the yellow double lines on the road.

    He said that when he called the LTA to check, he was told he could park where there were no yellow lines.

    But the URA maintained that no parking is allowed outside of a parking lot along Marshall Road and rejected his appeal.

    It offered to settle both parking summons if he paid a fine of 'a few hundred dollars'.

    Mr Seow rejected the settlement offer and saw his Member of Parliament for help.

    He was told to 'seek redress in court', and did just that in April this year.

    He said: 'I claimed trial because I didn't think I was wrong, and it's against my principles to just pay the fines like that.'

    Mr Seow said the cost of hiring a lawyer was 'nothing' compared to the time he spent on the case.

    He said: 'The opportunity cost of the time is worth more than $10,000. Instead of working, I had to meet my lawyer a few times and go to court for the trial.'

    During the trial, the court heard that since 30 Sep 2000, Marshall Road had been gazetted as a parking place, which means cars are allowed to park only within the designated parking lots.

    But defence counsel Eric Liew, of Gabriel Law Corporation, noted that 'there are no signboards' informing the public or residents of this rule.

    CONFUSING MARKINGS

    Mr Liew said this rule is 'confusing... given the existing road markings' by LTA.

    He noted that instead of a continuous white line, a broken white line runs down the middle of Marshall Road.

    He said the broken white line indicated that motorists can park along the road where there are no double yellow lines.

    Mr Liew noted that there are no double yellow lines drawn in front of Mr Seow's house gate.

    He said: 'The manner of markings on the road by the authority is thus contradictory to the fact that the road had been gazetted (as a parking place).'

    Witness Phang Li Bin, an engineer from LTA's traffic management department, told the court she recalled getting a call from a member of the public, asking if parking was permitted along Marshall Road.

    She said: 'I informed him (Mr Seow) that he can park his car on the side of the road with no double yellow lines.'

    When asked by the defence if she knew that Marshall Road was gazetted, Ms Phang said it 'doesn't come under LTA, so I'll not be able to comment'.

    However, she admitted that she did not know what 'gazetted' means.

    The prosecution then asked her if MrSeow had asked if he could park in front of his house.

    Ms Phang said he didn't and if he had, she would have 'definitely advised him not to do so'.

    She was not asked to elaborate why.

    The defence noted in its closing submission that Mr Seow was 'not obstructing any traffic', having parked along a one-way road.

    A letter from Mr Seow's immediate neighbour saying he did not mind the car parked in their shared driveway was also submitted to the court.

    But the prosecution stated: 'It is immaterial whether the vehicle is parked against or not against any lines drawn by LTA. So long as the vehicle is not parked in a designated parking lot, it is an offence.'

    Despite having to pay almost 10 times more than the original fines, Mr Seow felt it was 'a good investment' if it raises awareness.

    He said: 'It is only responsible and professional that URA reconciles any conflict between their regulations and other government bodies.

    'It has been a year since I appealed to the URA, but nothing has been done.'
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  5. #5
    teddybear's Avatar
    teddybear is offline Global recession is coming....
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    Again, I must say many people are real ignorant! oh my gosh!

    Marshall Road, if I am not wrong, is a through-pass road built by the government on government land (just look at the map you can tell), NOT inlet road whose land belonged to the private developer who built the houses there!
    That is why there are different treatments between government owned and built roads and property developers' built private inlet roads (which were built on developers' owned land)!

    For those who have never owned and live in private landed properties before, now do you understand the difference???

    Ok, for once, I am going to say, don't any how accuse the government / LTA / URA of being unfair (i.e. some people got free car parking outside their houses and some don't, because some roads outside some people's house are on government-owned to start with, while some are developers' owned private land)!
    Ok, may be now you get it: Before you buy any landed, better check the status of the land and road outside your private landed property!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelonguni View Post
    Katong man loses fight to park in front of own house. Court tells him:
    You must use PARKING LOT
    He's fined $1,400, pays $8,000 legal fees
    HE was surprised to receive a parking summons - after all, he had parked his car in front of his own house.
    By Celine Lim
    19 September 2007

    HE was surprised to receive a parking summons - after all, he had parked his car in front of his own house.

    The first fine was $50, but Mr Seow Hock Hin, 36, felt it was unfair.

    So, instead of paying up, he took his case to the Urban Redevelopment Authority (URA).

    And, in the midst of his appeal, he received another $50 summons for the same offence.

    When the URA rejected his appeal, he decided to take his fight to court. He lost.

    Last Tuesday, Mr Seow was fined $700 each for two charges of not parking his car in a parking lot.

    For each charge, he could have been fined up to $2,000 or jailed up to three months, or both.

    On top of that, he chalked up about $8,000 in legal fees and had to take leave for the one-day trial last Monday.

    Mr Seow, who works in the finance industry, also estimated that the time he spent fighting his case cost him about $10,000 in lost earnings.

    So why not just pay the fines?

    Well, he thought there was nothing wrong with parking in front of his own gate along Marshall Road, near Haig Road in Katong.

    When he was first issued a parking summons on 23 May last year, he thought it was a mistake.

    'I wrote to the URA thinking that if I told them I was the owner of the house which had its entrance blocked by my car, they'd waive the fine.'

    His letter explained that he had parked in front of his own gate along the one-way stretch of Marshall Road.

    He noted that he had parked his car in the same spot without incident since moving into the house in 2003.

    He added that it was 'common' for his neighbours to park in front of their gates, where there are no double yellow lines drawn.

    He sent about eight letters while corresponding with the URA.

    Then, on 5 Aug last year, Mr Seow was again fined $50 for the same parking offence.

    Again, he found it hard to believe that he was at fault.

    He said: 'I thought it was another mistake made by another parking warden.

    'My car was obstructing only the entrance to my house. It was obstructing only me.'

    He said he used to park his car within the compound of his house. But his three dogs kept biting off his licence plates so he decided to park in front of his gate.

    He also believed he was obeying the road markings by the Land Transport Authority (LTA) in parking his car by avoiding the yellow double lines on the road.

    He said that when he called the LTA to check, he was told he could park where there were no yellow lines.

    But the URA maintained that no parking is allowed outside of a parking lot along Marshall Road and rejected his appeal.

    It offered to settle both parking summons if he paid a fine of 'a few hundred dollars'.

    Mr Seow rejected the settlement offer and saw his Member of Parliament for help.

    He was told to 'seek redress in court', and did just that in April this year.

    He said: 'I claimed trial because I didn't think I was wrong, and it's against my principles to just pay the fines like that.'

    Mr Seow said the cost of hiring a lawyer was 'nothing' compared to the time he spent on the case.

    He said: 'The opportunity cost of the time is worth more than $10,000. Instead of working, I had to meet my lawyer a few times and go to court for the trial.'

    During the trial, the court heard that since 30 Sep 2000, Marshall Road had been gazetted as a parking place, which means cars are allowed to park only within the designated parking lots.

    But defence counsel Eric Liew, of Gabriel Law Corporation, noted that 'there are no signboards' informing the public or residents of this rule.

    CONFUSING MARKINGS

    Mr Liew said this rule is 'confusing... given the existing road markings' by LTA.

    He noted that instead of a continuous white line, a broken white line runs down the middle of Marshall Road.

    He said the broken white line indicated that motorists can park along the road where there are no double yellow lines.

    Mr Liew noted that there are no double yellow lines drawn in front of Mr Seow's house gate.

    He said: 'The manner of markings on the road by the authority is thus contradictory to the fact that the road had been gazetted (as a parking place).'

    Witness Phang Li Bin, an engineer from LTA's traffic management department, told the court she recalled getting a call from a member of the public, asking if parking was permitted along Marshall Road.

    She said: 'I informed him (Mr Seow) that he can park his car on the side of the road with no double yellow lines.'

    When asked by the defence if she knew that Marshall Road was gazetted, Ms Phang said it 'doesn't come under LTA, so I'll not be able to comment'.

    However, she admitted that she did not know what 'gazetted' means.

    The prosecution then asked her if MrSeow had asked if he could park in front of his house.

    Ms Phang said he didn't and if he had, she would have 'definitely advised him not to do so'.

    She was not asked to elaborate why.

    The defence noted in its closing submission that Mr Seow was 'not obstructing any traffic', having parked along a one-way road.

    A letter from Mr Seow's immediate neighbour saying he did not mind the car parked in their shared driveway was also submitted to the court.

    But the prosecution stated: 'It is immaterial whether the vehicle is parked against or not against any lines drawn by LTA. So long as the vehicle is not parked in a designated parking lot, it is an offence.'

    Despite having to pay almost 10 times more than the original fines, Mr Seow felt it was 'a good investment' if it raises awareness.

    He said: 'It is only responsible and professional that URA reconciles any conflict between their regulations and other government bodies.

    'It has been a year since I appealed to the URA, but nothing has been done.'

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