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Thread: Common Wealth Tower VS ARTRA

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    Thumbs up Common Wealth Tower VS ARTRA

    Commonwealth Towers is located in prime District 03, next to Queenstown MRT. With its location in Queenstown, it is a short 5 mins drive to Orchard Road and the CBD. This development will be served by major expressway; Central Expressway (CTE) and Ayer-Rajar Expressway (AYE) which getting access to Orchard Road, CBD and The Marina Bay is a breeze.

    Given Commonwealth Towers strategically location, there are nearby reputable educational institutions like Gan Eng Seng Primary School, Cresent Girls’ School, NUS and INSEAD. Closeness to the Queenstown MRT, there is also a good tenant pool from the Central Business District area and the Buona Vista One North area.

    It is expected to TOP Q1 2018. Which means you can move in soon and expected rental income anytime soon.
    Limited 1 Bedroom Supply in Queenstown.

    Limited Star Buy till end of JUNE
    1 BEDROOM from $858k (#39)
    2 BEDROOM from $1,358 mil (#39)
    3 BEDROOM from $1,848 mil (#39)

    ARTRA at Alexandra View is a new condominium launch next to Redhill MRT. Developed by Tang Skyline, ARTRA at Alexandra View will be a mixed development with commercial on the 1st level and a 44 storey block with 400 residential units.

    ARTRA comes with smallest size of 2 bedroom Study to 5 Bedroom with family, with the biggest unit of 2583 sf. There are no 4 bedrooms available but a 3 bedroom + study instead. The units are all of very good sizes with functional layout. ARTRA comes with a childcare centre, 1 supermarket and 16 shops for sale, which may possibly lower the average psf for the residential.

    ARTRA Showflat location is a close proximity to the actual site, on Prince Charles Crescent. close to redhill MRT, in addition to the great connectivity to Orchard Road, CBD and Marina Bay. There is a good potential for great capital appreciation and strong rental demand.

    Launching Price
    2 BEDROOM from $1,419 mil (#21)
    3 BEDROOM from $1,690 mil (#12)
    3 + STUDY from $1,851 mil (#05)

    STIRLING LAND BID FOR S$1 BILLION. How much do you think their expected break even price to be?
    www.condosglaunch.com
    Showflat hotline 6100 8610

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    Quote Originally Posted by AuntAnnie View Post
    Commonwealth Towers is located in prime District 03, next to Queenstown MRT. With its location in Queenstown, it is a short 5 mins drive to Orchard Road and the CBD. This development will be served by major expressway; Central Expressway (CTE) and Ayer-Rajar Expressway (AYE) which getting access to Orchard Road, CBD and The Marina Bay is a breeze.

    Given Commonwealth Towers strategically location, there are nearby reputable educational institutions like Gan Eng Seng Primary School, Cresent Girls’ School, NUS and INSEAD. Closeness to the Queenstown MRT, there is also a good tenant pool from the Central Business District area and the Buona Vista One North area.

    It is expected to TOP Q1 2018. Which means you can move in soon and expected rental income anytime soon.
    Limited 1 Bedroom Supply in Queenstown.

    Limited Star Buy till end of JUNE
    1 BEDROOM from $858k (#39)
    2 BEDROOM from $1,358 mil (#39)
    3 BEDROOM from $1,848 mil (#39)

    ARTRA at Alexandra View is a new condominium launch next to Redhill MRT. Developed by Tang Skyline, ARTRA at Alexandra View will be a mixed development with commercial on the 1st level and a 44 storey block with 400 residential units.

    ARTRA comes with smallest size of 2 bedroom Study to 5 Bedroom with family, with the biggest unit of 2583 sf. There are no 4 bedrooms available but a 3 bedroom + study instead. The units are all of very good sizes with functional layout. ARTRA comes with a childcare centre, 1 supermarket and 16 shops for sale, which may possibly lower the average psf for the residential.

    ARTRA Showflat location is a close proximity to the actual site, on Prince Charles Crescent. close to redhill MRT, in addition to the great connectivity to Orchard Road, CBD and Marina Bay. There is a good potential for great capital appreciation and strong rental demand.

    Launching Price
    2 BEDROOM from $1,419 mil (#21)
    3 BEDROOM from $1,690 mil (#12)
    3 + STUDY from $1,851 mil (#05)

    STIRLING LAND BID FOR S$1 BILLION. How much do you think their expected break even price to be?
    www.condosglaunch.com
    Showflat hotline 6100 8610
    So... Which one will better appreciate in 10 years time?

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    ARTRA is my 2 cents choice. Why?

    1) 1 stop closer to town. If you take it everyday, it adds up.
    2) ARTRA is a mixed development and CT is not. Commercial site will help owners to deflect cost pressures. Only mixed development can help owners generate income for the MCST for the long term. Why not? Less pressure on funds when you need to fix the roof of the walkway. Do you want to increase your management fees exponentially? This is a heavy cost that will only go up. Retail component will slow it down.
    3) CT is going to have massive competition due to the site bought by Logan. You can say the same for ARTRA too but next to MRT? None for mixed development in Red Hill. Zero competition. Buy into rarity always. There is only less than 15 mixed developments in Singapore, plenty of twin towers all around.
    4) Half the units compared to CT. Half the headache to book facilities and easier to vote for en-bloc.

    Oh, please buy above 18th floors if possible. Fly a drone and on the mic if in doubt, when the train drive by ever so often.

    2 cents,
    PropVestor

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    Quote Originally Posted by PropVestor View Post
    ARTRA is my 2 cents choice. Why?

    1) 1 stop closer to town. If you take it everyday, it adds up.
    2) ARTRA is a mixed development and CT is not. Commercial site will help owners to deflect cost pressures. Only mixed development can help owners generate income for the MCST for the long term. Why not? Less pressure on funds when you need to fix the roof of the walkway. Do you want to increase your management fees exponentially? This is a heavy cost that will only go up. Retail component will slow it down.
    3) CT is going to have massive competition due to the site bought by Logan. You can say the same for ARTRA too but next to MRT? None for mixed development in Red Hill. Zero competition. Buy into rarity always. There is only less than 15 mixed developments in Singapore, plenty of twin towers all around.
    4) Half the units compared to CT. Half the headache to book facilities and easier to vote for en-bloc.

    Oh, please buy above 18th floors if possible. Fly a drone and on the mic if in doubt, when the train drive by ever so often.

    2 cents,
    PropVestor
    Nice point on the uniqueness of Mixed Development.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PropVestor View Post
    ARTRA is my 2 cents choice. Why?

    1) 1 stop closer to town. If you take it everyday, it adds up.
    2) ARTRA is a mixed development and CT is not. Commercial site will help owners to deflect cost pressures. Only mixed development can help owners generate income for the MCST for the long term. Why not? Less pressure on funds when you need to fix the roof of the walkway. Do you want to increase your management fees exponentially? This is a heavy cost that will only go up. Retail component will slow it down.
    3) CT is going to have massive competition due to the site bought by Logan. You can say the same for ARTRA too but next to MRT? None for mixed development in Red Hill. Zero competition. Buy into rarity always. There is only less than 15 mixed developments in Singapore, plenty of twin towers all around.
    4) Half the units compared to CT. Half the headache to book facilities and easier to vote for en-bloc.

    Oh, please buy above 18th floors if possible. Fly a drone and on the mic if in doubt, when the train drive by ever so often.

    2 cents,
    PropVestor
    While I agree with the rarity of mixed developments, how can be only 15 in the entire Singapore??

    Compass Heights
    DUO
    Concourse Skyline
    Artra
    Le Quest
    Poiz
    Midtown
    Wisteria
    The Tennery
    V on Shenton
    Hillion
    Paya Lebar Quarter
    Katong Regency
    Stars Kovan
    Centris
    Watertown
    Promenade at Pelikat
    Icon at Pasir Panjang
    Tanjong Pagar Centre
    Orchard Residences
    Icon
    Solieil
    Woodleigh land plot by SPH (coming soon)

    just to name a few. And I havent even come to those small ones in Joo Chiat, Chinatown, Balestier, Jalan Besar, Geylang, Little India, Rangoon Rd, etc etc...

    Why you say 15 only ley?

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    I was actually counting those Mixed D located directly next to MRT like ARTRA. I do not think there are 15.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by sunman77 View Post
    While I agree with the rarity of mixed developments, how can be only 15 in the entire Singapore??

    Compass Heights
    DUO
    Concourse Skyline
    Artra
    Le Quest
    Poiz
    Midtown
    Wisteria
    The Tennery
    V on Shenton
    Hillion
    Paya Lebar Quarter
    Katong Regency
    Stars Kovan
    Centris
    Watertown
    Promenade at Pelikat
    Icon at Pasir Panjang
    Tanjong Pagar Centre
    Orchard Residences
    Icon
    Solieil
    Woodleigh land plot by SPH (coming soon)

    just to name a few. And I havent even come to those small ones in Joo Chiat, Chinatown, Balestier, Jalan Besar, Geylang, Little India, Rangoon Rd, etc etc...

    Why you say 15 only ley?
    Watertown is on top of Waterway Point & Punggol MRT, should qualify among the 15 mentioned by Kelonguni.

    Other examples include:
    - Compass Heights (above Compass Point, Sengkang MRT)
    - Bedok Residences (above Bedok Mall, linked to Bedok MRT)
    - Park Place Residences (linked to Paya Lebar MRT)
    - The Centrist (above Jurong Point, linked to Boon Lay MRT)

    Kelonguni has the full list?

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    With all those terrorist attacks on infrastructure and targeting MRT stations, I will never want to live above MRT stations!

    Also, people can forget about enbloc for mixed development property (which is its unique point as well, i.e. almost ZERO enbloc potential)!

    Quote Originally Posted by anythingwhatever View Post
    Watertown is on top of Waterway Point & Punggol MRT, should qualify among the 15 mentioned by Kelonguni.

    Other examples include:
    - Compass Heights (above Compass Point, Sengkang MRT)
    - Bedok Residences (above Bedok Mall, linked to Bedok MRT)
    - Park Place Residences (linked to Paya Lebar MRT)
    - The Centrist (above Jurong Point, linked to Boon Lay MRT)

    Kelonguni has the full list?
    Quote Originally Posted by anythingwhatever View Post
    Nice point on the uniqueness of Mixed Development.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    With all those terrorist attacks on infrastructure and targeting MRT stations, I will never want to live above MRT stations!

    Also, people can forget about enbloc for mixed development property (which is its unique point as well, i.e. almost ZERO enbloc potential)!
    Haha, good point, never thought of that...

    Red Alert to fans of Mixed Developments.

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    Don't let the blind lead you.

    A few of those on the list were the results of enbloc.

    The reason why it might be harder to go enbloc for mixed developments are as follows:

    http://propertyhighlights.blogspot.s...es-in.html?m=1

    If near MRT is bad, then I really dunno what is the criteria for good. Haha...

    Anyway not all the above are at MRTs as well...


    Quote Originally Posted by anythingwhatever View Post
    Haha, good point, never thought of that...

    Red Alert to fans of Mixed Developments.
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

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    What you posted still supports what I said:

    Mr Lui Seng Fatt, head of investments at Jones Lang LaSalle, warned that this new rule may make it harder for mixed developments to go en bloc. ‘Also, owners with a larger floor area may now have a bigger say, not only in voting but also in how to split the sale proceeds,’ he added.

    But the change may not have much impact on the en bloc market - 90 per cent of deals done since last year were in purely residential estates, said Mr Nicholas Mak, director of research and consultancy at Knight Frank.


    Also, I didn't say near MRT is bad - I only say living directly above the MRT station is bad!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelonguni View Post
    Don't let the blind lead you.

    A few of those on the list were the results of enbloc.

    The reason why it might be harder to go enbloc for mixed developments are as follows:

    http://propertyhighlights.blogspot.s...es-in.html?m=1

    If near MRT is bad, then I really dunno what is the criteria for good. Haha...

    Anyway not all the above are at MRTs as well...

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    With all those terrorist attacks on infrastructure and targeting MRT stations, I will never want to live above MRT stations!

    Also, people can forget about enbloc for mixed development property (which is its unique point as well, i.e. almost ZERO enbloc potential)!
    Don't think as a new owner, I will ever see that day. It's mind blowing how much the next wave of owners will be asking for in 30 odd years time.

    Combined Duo and marina one is already $11billion. I will leave it to the next wave of billionaires after me to decide.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PropVestor View Post
    I was actually counting those Mixed D located directly next to MRT like ARTRA. I do not think there are 15.....
    Again, the list I scribbled earlier already has 18 in accordance to your definition...

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    Thanks for enriching our minds with the discussion, Mr current Billionaire.

    Quote Originally Posted by PropVestor View Post
    I will leave it to the next wave of billionaires after me to decide.
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

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    My take on Artra, the less than positive aspects.

    - Targeted at investors, layout not ideal for own stay.
    - Oversupply of units bought for investment in this vicinity.
    - Are the commercial/retail units sold strata? Will they be under a separate mcst or same mcst? Same mcst does not mean they will defray costs for the residential unit owners, may even pass on costs if major owner controls mcst votes.

    neighboring condos like Echelon, Ascentia Sky, etc will enjoy the benefits of Artra's retail without having to be linked to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by august View Post
    My take on Artra, the less than positive aspects.

    - Targeted at investors, layout not ideal for own stay.
    - Oversupply of units bought for investment in this vicinity.
    - Are the commercial/retail units sold strata? Will they be under a separate mcst or same mcst? Same mcst does not mean they will defray costs for the residential unit owners, may even pass on costs if major owner controls mcst votes.

    neighboring condos like Echelon, Ascentia Sky, etc will enjoy the benefits of Artra's retail without having to be linked to it.
    Lets put it in context to CommonWealth Towers and not compare ARTRA with neighbouring which puts it out of context.

    All units will be STRATA TITLE except the ChildCare and NTUC Finest (24 hours). The latter will help to generate income. They are good tenants for anchor which will rightly serve the neighbouring condos. Sure to succeed.

    I do agree that RedHill will have lots of condos in the near future, just like Queenstown area too in the works of a few thousand units. And that is the main reason why I bought PLQ over these city fringe areas. Although, sooner or later PL will be crowded too. So far though, only 419 units (half unsold) of luxury apartments there.

    Self made 2 cents contributor (not a billionaire...never will be)
    PropVestor

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    Quote Originally Posted by sunman77 View Post
    Again, the list I scribbled earlier already has 18 in accordance to your definition...
    Well your maths is better than mine then! Haha. Thanks for taking time to write it all down and educating us. I find it such a chore to remember how many are there actually. Thanks sunman77.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PropVestor View Post
    Lets put it in context to CommonWealth Towers and not compare ARTRA with neighbouring which puts it out of context.

    All units will be STRATA TITLE except the ChildCare and NTUC Finest (24 hours). The latter will help to generate income. They are good tenants for anchor which will rightly serve the neighbouring condos. Sure to succeed.
    Huh? Your context seems off since CT is one station away. In context means at least compare with its immediate neighbours. lol

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    Yes, you got a point. It is hard to choose if you put it this way. So glad I do not have to make that kind of '1 station away' decision.

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    To me, buying a residential property in a mixed development is like buying investment-linked insurance policy..............
    And you should know what is the outcome for buyers of investment-linked insurance policy...................
    If you want to buy residential property, go buy 1 residential property in residential estate.
    If you want to buy commercial property, go buy 1 in commercial property estate/mall.
    Don't mixed them, just like don't mix insurance with investment!


    Quote Originally Posted by PropVestor View Post
    Lets put it in context to CommonWealth Towers and not compare ARTRA with neighbouring which puts it out of context.

    All units will be STRATA TITLE except the ChildCare and NTUC Finest (24 hours). The latter will help to generate income. They are good tenants for anchor which will rightly serve the neighbouring condos. Sure to succeed.

    I do agree that RedHill will have lots of condos in the near future, just like Queenstown area too in the works of a few thousand units. And that is the main reason why I bought PLQ over these city fringe areas. Although, sooner or later PL will be crowded too. So far though, only 419 units (half unsold) of luxury apartments there.

    Self made 2 cents contributor (not a billionaire...never will be)
    PropVestor

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    To me, buying a residential property in a mixed development is like buying investment-linked insurance policy..............
    And you should know what is the outcome for buyers of investment-linked insurance policy...................
    If you want to buy residential property, go buy 1 residential property in residential estate.
    If you want to buy commercial property, go buy 1 in commercial property estate/mall.
    Don't mixed them, just like don't mix insurance with investment!
    When land use intensifies and prime land bided for billions today, this is the only way to go. Intensify land use per psf with links to transport nodes and hubs. Residential supporting retail. If there are offices in the mixed development, it supports both residents/tenants and retail. If there is an hotel component, even better. It builds an ecosystem within a development that is self supporting. It is a concept that is here to stay once decentralisation and car light take a bigger step forward. I cannot think of a better way than this which is to discourage residents from moving around too much to get around their life. Live, work and play in the same vicinity. Less cars, more time to work and of course play. Not all Mixed D has that and can safely command this eco-system label.

    In time to come, the yield of mixed D that is close to transport hubs will speak for itself. Will your insurance have such an ecosystem that is symbiotic in relation? If not, this is not a good analogy to state for Mixed D.

    Downside? I believe it has been stated. It is really hard to en-bloc given the price of the estate and if you are the later owners. First mover advantage is important for Mixed D that is close to transport Hub. The more 'mixed' it is, the better.

    2 cents,
    PropVestor

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    As we have already pointed out, mixed Development estate will have very very low enbloc potential.

    So if people buy their residential property in mixed D to consume (as an expense), fine.

    If people buy their residential property in mixed D dreaming of it as an "investment", they can continue to dream then.......................

    Also, there are quite many private residential properties beside MRT stations and shopping malls and are not mixed D. So to me, there is really no need to buy residential property in mixed Development even if they want to invest in residential properties!

    And beware, the MRT stations are always in sight of attack by terorists!
    Better don't live above it! You and your family members may never wake up from your sleep living above it!



    Quote Originally Posted by PropVestor View Post
    When land use intensifies and prime land bided for billions today, this is the only way to go. Intensify land use per psf with links to transport nodes and hubs. Residential supporting retail. If there are offices in the mixed development, it supports both residents/tenants and retail. If there is an hotel component, even better. It builds an ecosystem within a development that is self supporting. It is a concept that is here to stay once decentralisation and car light take a bigger step forward. I cannot think of a better way than this which is to discourage residents from moving around too much to get around their life. Live, work and play in the same vicinity. Less cars, more time to work and of course play. Not all Mixed D has that and can safely command this eco-system label.

    In time to come, the yield of mixed D that is close to transport hubs will speak for itself. Will your insurance have such an ecosystem that is symbiotic in relation? If not, this is not a good analogy to state for Mixed D.

    Downside? I believe it has been stated. It is really hard to en-bloc given the price of the estate and if you are the later owners. First mover advantage is important for Mixed D that is close to transport Hub. The more 'mixed' it is, the better.

    2 cents,
    PropVestor

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    Residential development next to a mall > mixed development > residential development that requires travel to a mall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sunman77 View Post
    Residential development next to a mall > mixed development > residential development that requires travel to a mall.
    To me, the most exciting part of investing in a Mixed D is actually having an office component other than just mall which many many Mixed D has to qualify. Why? This will create an exponential installed base (all visitors to the offices other than workers) on top of residents whom some will be office workers too to support the retail and in some way the residents (you can only buy into this and nothing else since Grade A here are non-strata title). With Grade A offices (CCR and RCR) component which are usually with large floor plates for MNCs, I count only 5 in Singapore (3-in-1 or 4-in-1). They are all multi-billion dollar projects. If you spent 1 million or more in a multi-billion project as investment, is that a wrong calculated move?

    Did i miss anything out of the 5?

    MarinaOne
    Tanjong Pagar Centre
    Duo Residences
    South Beach
    PLQ

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    Quote Originally Posted by PropVestor View Post
    To me, the most exciting part of investing in a Mixed D is actually having an office component other than just mall which many many Mixed D has to qualify. Why? This will create an exponential installed base (all visitors to the offices other than workers) on top of residents whom some will be office workers too to support the retail and in some way the residents (you can only buy into this and nothing else since Grade A here are non-strata title). With Grade A offices (CCR and RCR) component which are usually with large floor plates for MNCs, I count only 5 in Singapore (3-in-1 or 4-in-1). They are all multi-billion dollar projects. If you spent 1 million or more in a multi-billion project as investment, is that a wrong calculated move?

    Did i miss anything out of the 5?

    MarinaOne
    Tanjong Pagar Centre
    Duo Residences
    South Beach
    PLQ
    Haha I think very zoon.
    Yup I think the 3-in-1 or 4-in-1 types are just about there. Super rare. My fav is DUO but I dont have enough $$ to buy.

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