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Thread: Rental Help

  1. #1
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    Default Rental Help

    My tenant had some problem with the toilet and we had to replace the toilet bowl and wanted to claim from them as it is above the agreed amount to fork out by landlord as in the contract. However, my agent said it is a small work due to the technicality of the issue so we have to bear it.

    May I know where can I check on guidelines on this kind of situation? I thought it is based on the total amount of work needed to solve the issue?

  2. #2
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    Usually in contract, there are two important clauses.

    1) Within the first month, LL bear full cost
    2) After first month, tenant bear first $150 or $200 depending on the contract. LL bear the rest.

    But I have to say, in MOST contracts. You got to check yours. And if this project still have warranty, get the developer to fix it.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomastansb View Post
    Usually in contract, there are two important clauses.

    1) Within the first month, LL bear full cost
    2) After first month, tenant bear first $150 or $200 depending on the contract. LL bear the rest.

    But I have to say, in MOST contracts. You got to check yours. And if this project still have warranty, get the developer to fix it.
    Usually not pay "the rest" right?

    Usually above 150 or 200, landlord pays the full sum.
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelonguni View Post
    Usually not pay "the rest" right?

    Usually above 150 or 200, landlord pays the full sum.
    Thomas is correct. Tenant is 'insured' against the cost not exploding more than $200 usually. The rest is to be paid by us.

    A toilet bowl including installation should not go above $500. You do the sums Jackie.

  5. #5
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    all thats been said is generally true and correct.
    But still need to ascertain what is the issue...

    if it is a damage due to wilful act ... tenant has to bear the entire cost

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by PropVestor View Post
    Thomas is correct. Tenant is 'insured' against the cost not exploding more than $200 usually. The rest is to be paid by us.

    A toilet bowl including installation should not go above $500. You do the sums Jackie.
    Oh yah you are right. I just looked at the clause carefully. Landlord pays in excess of $150, and only when not due to wilfulness or negligence etc...

    So far never really had issues with these. Most of the time is equipment not working after warranty period, which I happily replace.
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by PropVestor View Post
    Thomas is correct. Tenant is 'insured' against the cost not exploding more than $200 usually. The rest is to be paid by us.

    A toilet bowl including installation should not go above $500. You do the sums Jackie.
    Now wait just a cotton pickin' minute there! The excess of $150 or whatever borne by LL is for expendable and small item repairs, right?
    Whereas replacement of a WC, isn't that a replacement of sanitary fixture.?
    I believe that's why the LL is being asked to bear the full amount (which is why TS is posting in the first place)

    Yours nitpickingly,
    Tony.

  8. #8
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    I bought over the unit with tenancy so am not sure about what it means exactly. Not trying to nitpick but the tenant has caused quite a bit of damages to the place by not taking care of it and we have to reno to make it livable for ourselves.

    The exact wordings are:
    "To be responsible for all minor repairs....not exceeding $200 throughout term of said lease. Such expenditure in excess of $200 (per item/job) shall be borne by landlord. The tenant will still be liable for the minimim sum of the $200 (per item/job)."

    Doesn't this mean if the job is $500, we pay first and claim back $200 from tenant? Is the agent trying to pull a fast one on us?
    Last edited by TravieJackie; 18-04-18 at 20:09.

  9. #9
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    You have to be clear what you are talking about.

    Let's say lights spoilt. $30. Tenant pay.
    Stove spoilt. $300. Tenant pay $200. You pay $100.
    Scratches and drawings on wall. $1000. Tenany pay $1000.

    Really depends what you are talking about. Like toilet bowl. What is the problem? Choke, tenant bear full cost. Even if $1000, they pay because this is not wear and tear. This is mis-use. I know some are grey areas so remember to get your agent in to help you as well. Like toilet bowl minor crack - This is hard to say wear and tear or negligence. Usually 50/50 but need to negotiate. You still have the deposit so you have the upper hand.



    Quote Originally Posted by TravieJackie View Post
    I bought over the unit with tenancy so am not sure about what it means exactly. Not trying to nitpick but the tenant has caused quite a bit of damages to the place by not taking care of it and we have to reno to make it livable for ourselves.

    The exact wordings are:
    "To be responsible for all minor repairs....not exceeding $200 throughout term of said lease. Such expenditure in excess of $200 (per item/job) shall be borne by landlord. The tenant will still be liable for the minimim sum of the $200 (per item/job)."

    Doesn't this mean if the job is $500, we pay first and claim back $200 from tenant? Is the agent trying to pull a fast one on us?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonymontana View Post
    Now wait just a cotton pickin' minute there! The excess of $150 or whatever borne by LL is for expendable and small item repairs, right?
    Whereas replacement of a WC, isn't that a replacement of sanitary fixture.?
    I believe that's why the LL is being asked to bear the full amount (which is why TS is posting in the first place)

    Yours nitpickingly,
    Tony.
    Dear Tony,

    Lets see if you are true sanitary fixture aka toilet expert cum TA overlord. hehe

    Case question: If the toilet bowl suffers from external trauma such as an external blow or crack which is deemed to be not from internal wear and tear from frequent 'bombardments'. Then I think the case can be argued that the tenant is at fault and hence may need to ask for 50:50 sharing of charges over and above the excess of $150-$200?

    TA Clause Nitpicker,
    PropVestor

  11. #11
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    Toilwt bowl leaking from base. Whole unit is renovated very nicely for 3 yrs only and badly maintained by them.

    To sinplify, if it is their misuse, does the contract means that they will bear 1st $200? Hope someone can help. Thanks!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by TravieJackie View Post
    Toilwt bowl leaking from base. Whole unit is renovated very nicely for 3 yrs only and badly maintained by them.

    To sinplify, if it is their misuse, does the contract means that they will bear 1st $200? Hope someone can help. Thanks!
    If many items, EACH ITEM they are liable for $200.

    For one of my tenants during handover, every item deduct 100 or 150. Can claim up to whole deposit also.
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  13. #13
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    Gosh. So terrible? Has it got to do with the profile of the tenant for your case?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TravieJackie View Post
    Gosh. So terrible? Has it got to do with the profile of the tenant for your case?
    No lah, at the end of the year sure got something not working.

    Latches, door handles or cannot lock, cupboard hinges - new construction uses poorer materials I suspect.

    Older unit construction lasted for years!
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  15. #15
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    How much do you guys put aside for such touch ups at the end of say 2 years tenancy. If they are fitted with Miele washing/kitchenware and Villeroy & Boch toilet fittings for example? I am thinking of extending their warranties like the ~$4K Miele washing machine and dryer. At home, I am just using a $600 one. I have no idea how expensive it is to fix and replace these. Care to share?

  16. #16
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    Not much to set aside. Just reserve the deposit should do.

    Most funds in stocks just need one week to withdraw if desired.

    Quote Originally Posted by PropVestor View Post
    How much do you guys put aside for such touch ups at the end of say 2 years tenancy. If they are fitted with Miele washing/kitchenware and Villeroy & Boch toilet fittings for example? I am thinking of extending their warranties like the ~$4K Miele washing machine and dryer. At home, I am just using a $600 one. I have no idea how expensive it is to fix and replace these. Care to share?
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  17. #17
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    I need some urgent help again. Regarding this issue, my agent said the piping inside wore off so not neglicence issue as piping is hidden from view so we have to bear all. True? Or grey area?

    We have taken over the flat, a lot of damages like crack at basin n we need to change vanity counter due to this. Do tenant bear all? That cant be normal wear and tear what.. they said not purposely spoilt but to me, it's negligence right?

    So many probs and things to claim but they threatening to bring us to court...

    Even hanging system also totally spoilt and cannot repair... can claim full?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by TravieJackie View Post
    I need some urgent help again. Regarding this issue, my agent said the piping inside wore off so not neglicence issue as piping is hidden from view so we have to bear all. True? Or grey area?

    We have taken over the flat, a lot of damages like crack at basin n we need to change vanity counter due to this. Do tenant bear all? That cant be normal wear and tear what.. they said not purposely spoilt but to me, it's negligence right?

    So many probs and things to claim but they threatening to bring us to court...

    Even hanging system also totally spoilt and cannot repair... can claim full?
    Where is your agent?

  19. #19
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    Agent kept telling us shouldnt bill them this and that but i feel she is trying to make things easy for the tenant so she doesnt have to deal with the mess.

    Like telling us sink crack is wear and tear..

  20. #20
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    Back up with pictures and receipts. Every item you can claim back a repair amount subject to the limit of your TA.

    Tell them if want to sue go sue. If it was a repair that is due before the unit is ready for new tenant, it is fair for Ex tenant to return to original condition.

    Or get them to fix before handover.

    Quote Originally Posted by TravieJackie View Post
    Agent kept telling us shouldnt bill them this and that but i feel she is trying to make things easy for the tenant so she doesnt have to deal with the mess.

    Like telling us sink crack is wear and tear..
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by TravieJackie View Post
    I need some urgent help again. Regarding this issue, my agent said the piping inside wore off so not neglicence issue as piping is hidden from view so we have to bear all. True? Or grey area?

    We have taken over the flat, a lot of damages like crack at basin n we need to change vanity counter due to this. Do tenant bear all? That cant be normal wear and tear what.. they said not purposely spoilt but to me, it's negligence right?

    So many probs and things to claim but they threatening to bring us to court...

    Even hanging system also totally spoilt and cannot repair... can claim full?
    I would claim the cracked basin and the hanging system(? - i assume at wardrobe).

    As for the toilet, I'm wondering how "pipe inside wore off" can happen, perhaps agent meant rubber seal worn and cracked due to age. Suggest you get confirmation of exact nature of failure first. If it's rubber seal then I guess landlord has no choice but to replace it at their own expense.

    May I ask, what kind of tenants are these? Angmoh?

  22. #22
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    Yeah, rubber seal inside toilet bowl. I'm ok to pay. If contract states so. Just want to understand what falls under our expense and theirs? Why is this our expense?

    Hanging system is the clothes hanger, so bad til cannot use and keep dropping on my workers' heads that I told them to take down. What if it injure them?

    We kept all receipts and quotes as renovating now.

    They return house on last day and we cannot let them repair anymore as my renovation started the next day. No time to waste as i am renting elsehere and need to move out by a certain day to stay. Even my aircon check has to be done now and serviced later just as to get a quote from them. This is becuase they only serviced twiced and not all units and claimed lost their recipts.

    They are indian nationals.

  23. #23
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    I think the nationality is irrelevant here.

    You put yourself in tenants' shoe. Do you think tenants should pay?

    For example, pipe is hidden and leaking. To me it is grey as well and so according to contract, LL bear anything in excess of xxx dollars. Remember the contract states they have to repair for the first xxx dollars.

    Toilet bowl seal leaking - Could be wear and tear also.

    Must also see how many years they stay there. The longer they have stayed there, the more wear and tear.

    Same for clothes hanger. There is a shelf life one. Cannot be the hanger last forever. But cannot say it only lasted 1 year only.

    Lastly, I don't think anyone will take you to court. Never ever return the deposit to them first. Once you return, you won't be able to claim back. And also, the court see evidences. Usually all these are settled by the small claim tribunal and they will give a verdict on the spot so no issue one.

    Remember the key words - Reasonable wear and tear. If they stay there for 10 years, obviously most of the things will need to be replaced. If they stay there for 1 year, then most of the things should be reasonably new.

    Hope you get my point.

  24. #24
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    Try to work out a percentage to show that some items you paid.
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  25. #25
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    Thank you for all your help!!

    Got it and dont think we are inreasonable. The house is pretty new. Renovated 4 years back and good quality reno some more.

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