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Thread: Ascentia Sky (D3, 99 years, Wing Tai / United Engineers)

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    Default Ascentia Sky (D3, 99 years, Wing Tai / United Engineers)

    http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/sub/...18454,00.html?

    Published February 11, 2009

    Launch of 6 more condos likely in next few months

    All but one of these private condo projects are on 99-yr-leasehold sites

    By KALPANA RASHIWALA


    DEVELOPERS of at least six mass-market private condos could release their projects in the next few months, riding on buying momentum generated lately by the Caspian condo near Jurong Lake - despite the recession.

    Property consultancy CB Richard Ellis (CBRE) tips Oasis @ Elias, The Gale on Flora Road in Upper Changi and Ascentia Sky on Alexandra Road among projects for possible launch in the next two quarters.

    Others include UOL's 646-unit condo at Simei Street 4, Frasers Centrepoint's project in Woodleigh Close and a 571-unit condo by NTUC Choice Homes at Lor 2/3 Toa Payoh near Braddell MRT Station.

    All but one of these projects are on 99-year-leasehold sites bought through government land tenders in the past 14 months. The exception is The Gale, a freehold condo to be developed by Tripartite Developers as the latest in its series of condo projects in the Upper Changi location.

    Frasers Centrepoint's recent sales spurt for Caspian has shown where the base price is for the mass market.

    The developer released the first 250 units of the 99-year-leasehold condo during a preview last week, at an average price of $580 per square foot (psf), followed by a second batch of about 130 better-facing units at $600 psf. So far, more than 330 units have been sold in the development, which is next to Lakeside MRT Station.

    BT understands the developer is likely to offer a further 150 units during a public launch this weekend - and that pricing is likely to be calibrated upwards.

    CBRE executive director Joseph Tan attributes the good response to Caspian partly to its timely launch, coinciding with the government's announcement in Parliament that it will upgrade, expand and transform Jurong into a business and recreational hub.

    'The project is also priced competitively, within the affordability of HDB upgraders,' he said. 'The sales momentum seen at Caspian is an encouragement to developers to get their projects ready for launch in the second and third quarters of 2009.'

    Knight Frank executive director Peter Ow said that in current conditions, mass-market suburban projects aimed at HDB upgraders are more likely to sell than projects in other segments.

    'After all, HDB upgraders buying private homes for their own occupation are the core group of buyers left today,' he said. 'Investors and 'specu-vestors' are lying low. And as for foreign buyers, investing in overseas properties might not be a priority right now.'

    Amid today's tight lending climate, owner-occupiers are also more likely to secure finance from banks than investors, provided they have the means to service their loans, Mr Ow said.

    He reckons that for condos in outlying areas near MRT stations, the price resistance for a new launch in today's market would probably be in the $600-650 psf range on average.

    Another analyst put a price resistance in a higher band of $750-$850 psf for condos in mature HDB estates such as Toa Payoh and Ang Mo Kio.


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    Anyone have any idea what will be the indicative pricing for this project? Location is excellent. Bigger plot of land than neighbouring Metropolitan, away from MRT noise but still near enough (2 minutes walk). Orchard facing side has unblocked views though Harbourfront side is blocked I believe (partly by Metropolitan). Con is obviously the 99 yr leasehold.

    If I am not wrong, the land was acquired in 2007 at a very high price. Reports at that time indicated > 750psf to break even. The pricing of this project will be rather interesting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by propertyguru
    Anyone have any idea what will be the indicative pricing for this project? Location is excellent. Bigger plot of land than neighbouring Metropolitan, away from MRT noise but still near enough (2 minutes walk). Orchard facing side has unblocked views though Harbourfront side is blocked I believe (partly by Metropolitan). Con is obviously the 99 yr leasehold.

    If I am not wrong, the land was acquired in 2007 at a very high price. Reports at that time indicated > 750psf to break even. The pricing of this project will be rather interesting.
    Hi, I am also interested in this project due to its location. But looking at the breakeven price of 750psf, I would think the launch price would be around 800-900psf which IMO is too high at current situation. Anyway, it would be interesting to see how much they would sell for this project.

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    neighboring metropolitan, a very similar condo soon to TOP, is transacting at around 800psf now... wonder what will the selling point for this wing tai project.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teresa
    Hi, I am also interested in this project due to its location. But looking at the breakeven price of 750psf, I would think the launch price would be around 800-900psf which IMO is too high at current situation. Anyway, it would be interesting to see how much they would sell for this project.
    Indeed I agree that the pricing will be interesting for this development.

    Seems that Wing Tai bidded quite high for this land, heard the break even is at $1000psf , read below

    http://www.sghousing.com/2007/12/28/...lexandra-plot/

    alexis has set a price ceiling at 1100psf. But that's a FH.. guess the developer will have a hard time deciding the price for this one..

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    Yes break even is over $1k psf.. it would be an interesting development to see how WT will price these units considering it is a 99LH

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    I think the location is very good in that:-

    - travelling to Orchard rd is just a mere 5 min. drive from Tanglin rd.
    - going towards CBD/IR/ECP/AYE is a breeze
    - it is sitting on a very prime location which is also near amenities such as
    Redhill MRT, hawker centres, wet markets etc etc

    Unfortunately, its a 99 leasehold which can be a turnoff for potential buyer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teresa
    I think the location is very good in that:-

    - travelling to Orchard rd is just a mere 5 min. drive from Tanglin rd.
    - going towards CBD/IR/ECP/AYE is a breeze
    - it is sitting on a very prime location which is also near amenities such as
    Redhill MRT, hawker centres, wet markets etc etc

    Unfortunately, its a 99 leasehold which can be a turnoff for potential buyer.
    I agree about the location. Prefer it to Tiong Bahru, which is nearer to town, but more crowded. Redhill is still quiet for now. Would consider paying 700 to 800 psf for the development, even if 99 yr leasehold, but I doubt it will be launched for anything near that price.

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    Quote Originally Posted by propertyguru
    I agree about the location. Prefer it to Tiong Bahru, which is nearer to town, but more crowded. Redhill is still quiet for now. Would consider paying 700 to 800 psf for the development, even if 99 yr leasehold, but I doubt it will be launched for anything near that price.
    For 700 to 800pdf, you should consider Metropolitan now as currently, there are fire sales in some of the units as TOP is near. But for Wingtai, it should launch around $900-$1K psf.

    And when that happened, Metropolitan price will be at least be holding at $850psf.

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    Unfortunately, I am not that keen on Metropolitan's location so near the train track. The plot of land also looks awfully small compared to Ascentia's. Plus, once the latter is built, Metropolitan will be hemmed in by the tall HDB on one side and Ascentia on the other. Unless you take up one of the very high units.

    Of course, if Metropolitan's price is sufficiently low, I might consider. When you speak of fire sale, how low is the psf? These days, there are plenty of "fire sales" in the Classifieds, but when you call up, the prices are never fire sale prices. Haha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by propertyguru
    Unfortunately, I am not that keen on Metropolitan's location so near the train track. The plot of land also looks awfully small compared to Ascentia's. Plus, once the latter is built, Metropolitan will be hemmed in by the tall HDB on one side and Ascentia on the other. Unless you take up one of the very high units.

    Of course, if Metropolitan's price is sufficiently low, I might consider. When you speak of fire sale, how low is the psf? These days, there are plenty of "fire sales" in the Classifieds, but when you call up, the prices are never fire sale prices. Haha.
    "Fire Sales" will mean selling below $750psf. I noted the bigger units are letting off at a low price now. Not sure if at a lost but worth taking a look.

    There was a transaction in Dec sold at $710psf.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vin002
    "Fire Sales" will mean selling below $750psf. I noted the bigger units are letting off at a low price now. Not sure if at a lost but worth taking a look.

    There was a transaction in Dec sold at $710psf.
    Hi, when it comes to the word "Fire sale", we need to be mindful about the psf, don't be fooled by agents who are currently using it very frequently.

    As of now, I am still not able to see any "real" fire sale, meaning eg. Citilights selling at 500psf not 950 - 1000psf owners are currently still asking. I am still not seeing Metropolitan selling at 600psf and not 750-800psf owners are still asking. I still believe with the rate our Singaporeans are losing their jobs, I will not be surprised prices will crash down to launch psf 2-3 years ago. Lets watch and see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teresa
    Hi, when it comes to the word "Fire sale", we need to be mindful about the psf, don't be fooled by agents who are currently using it very frequently.

    As of now, I am still not able to see any "real" fire sale, meaning eg. Citilights selling at 500psf not 950 - 1000psf owners are currently still asking. I am still not seeing Metropolitan selling at 600psf and not 750-800psf owners are still asking. I still believe with the rate our Singaporeans are losing their jobs, I will not be surprised prices will crash down to launch psf 2-3 years ago. Lets watch and see.
    Hi, I agree with you. But I always believe that "Fire Sale" in housing if really like what you mention eg. Metropolitan for $600psf where the launch price is average $750psf. The first person to buy will be the property agent. Under normal circumstances, no seller will want to sell below their purchase price. Anyone selling equal to their purchase price will already made a lose for stamp duty & agent commission. When that happened, it is already considered as "Fire Sale" to me.

    The prices will be low for certain property when the owner has no holding power or the property was bought at a lower price. In the first situation, most likely the owner already has some financial problem. However, in a land shortage country and past few years where the land and construction cost is high, a few property has set the "new low" for the base. Therefore, unless you are referring to older property, it will be quite unlikely to reach the previous low except for some unfortunate situation.

    As long as it is a good deal, I believe in letting others earn a bit if you can afford. No point in throwing stone to others that have fallen to the well. What rounds go round. You may need help in some days...

    Nevertheless, there are still some real "Fire Sale" if you sniff hard enough.

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    How do we find out the actual area of the built-up and land for a new terrace.

    Do they have floor plan or some document? What is that called?

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    Decline in pty prices is mirroring the economic slide going on now. Periods of gradual unnoticeable slide with sudden shocks in between. Because all the govts are trying their hardest to hold & maintain the status quo. But this is just delaying the inevitable. So imho be patient.

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    How do we find out the actual area of the built-up and land for a new terrace.

    Do they have floor plan or some document? What is that called?


    By the way.. where can we find past transactions of landed houses ..
    The URA one only trace back till 2007..
    I am interested to know what Serangoon Gardens cost in 2004/5.

    Eyeing one property now that is 2100 land, 4200 builtup(with PES) and selling for $2mil now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vin002
    Hi, I agree with you. But I always believe that "Fire Sale" in housing if really like what you mention eg. Metropolitan for $600psf where the launch price is average $750psf. The first person to buy will be the property agent. Under normal circumstances, no seller will want to sell below their purchase price. Anyone selling equal to their purchase price will already made a lose for stamp duty & agent commission. When that happened, it is already considered as "Fire Sale" to me.

    The prices will be low for certain property when the owner has no holding power or the property was bought at a lower price. In the first situation, most likely the owner already has some financial problem. However, in a land shortage country and past few years where the land and construction cost is high, a few property has set the "new low" for the base. Therefore, unless you are referring to older property, it will be quite unlikely to reach the previous low except for some unfortunate situation.

    As long as it is a good deal, I believe in letting others earn a bit if you can afford. No point in throwing stone to others that have fallen to the well. What rounds go round. You may need help in some days...

    Nevertheless, there are still some real "Fire Sale" if you sniff hard enough.
    Yup, agree with you on the above. Its now a matter of waiting game between seller and buyer to see who will crack eventually. But with the recent sale of both Alexis and Caspian and with such a good take up rate, I am sure many buyers are now pondering whether is it the right time to go in and buy or just continue to wait for prices to go down.

    For me, if Ascentia Sky launches at around 800psf, I will buy it as I am able to afford it without much difficulty. I am confident when the market turns around in 2-3 years time, the prices will be able to move up another 10-20% without much difficulty. This is just my thoughts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teresa
    Yup, agree with you on the above. Its now a matter of waiting game between seller and buyer to see who will crack eventually. But with the recent sale of both Alexis and Caspian and with such a good take up rate, I am sure many buyers are now pondering whether is it the right time to go in and buy or just continue to wait for prices to go down.

    For me, if Ascentia Sky launches at around 800psf, I will buy it as I am able to afford it without much difficulty. I am confident when the market turns around in 2-3 years time, the prices will be able to move up another 10-20% without much difficulty. This is just my thoughts.
    If you are considering Ascentia Sky at around $800psf, I suggest you sniff out the good buy at Metropolitan. In comparison, Wing Tai Vs CapitaLand, CapitaLand has a better name.

    In addition, Metropolitan is going to TOP soon and definitely will have a good buy. Ascentia should launch around $900psf level which I will consider pricey for above $850. Besides, once Metropolitan TOP, the owner will have holding power and due to the launch of Ascentia at a higher price, it will mean that such good buy at Metropolitan may disappear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vin002
    As long as it is a good deal, I believe in letting others earn a bit if you can afford. No point in throwing stone to others that have fallen to the well. What rounds go round. You may need help in some days...
    I like what you say. In fact I think you're the first to say this. Give those in the deep some breathing space.

    I hope you will get the best deal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vin002
    If you are considering Ascentia Sky at around $800psf, I suggest you sniff out the good buy at Metropolitan. In comparison, Wing Tai Vs CapitaLand, CapitaLand has a better name.

    In addition, Metropolitan is going to TOP soon and definitely will have a good buy. Ascentia should launch around $900psf level which I will consider pricey for above $850. Besides, once Metropolitan TOP, the owner will have holding power and due to the launch of Ascentia at a higher price, it will mean that such good buy at Metropolitan may disappear.
    Thanks and I have in fact also consider Metropolitan but I felt that its really too close to the MRT track unless you are able to get a unit facing Tanglin road. I've previously stayed near a MRT track b4 and I can vouched for the noise every day, every 5-10 minutes which can be a nighmare for some. Yes, agree that Capitaland will be much better against Wing Tai in terms of also the finishing and quality but its just the location that I am pretty uncomfortable with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teresa
    Thanks and I have in fact also consider Metropolitan but I felt that its really too close to the MRT track unless you are able to get a unit facing Tanglin road. I've previously stayed near a MRT track b4 and I can vouched for the noise every day, every 5-10 minutes which can be a nighmare for some. Yes, agree that Capitaland will be much better against Wing Tai in terms of also the finishing and quality but its just the location that I am pretty uncomfortable with.
    Wow, you share my exact same views. Maybe we can be neighbours next time ;-) Anyway, I have been checking out the site, and it seems to me that they are building the condo at the same time they are building the showflat. I suppose the 99yr leasehold means that the developers cannot choose to sit on the plot of land and wait out the recession even if they did acquire the land at peak prices in 2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teresa
    Thanks and I have in fact also consider Metropolitan but I felt that its really too close to the MRT track unless you are able to get a unit facing Tanglin road. I've previously stayed near a MRT track b4 and I can vouched for the noise every day, every 5-10 minutes which can be a nighmare for some. Yes, agree that Capitaland will be much better against Wing Tai in terms of also the finishing and quality but its just the location that I am pretty uncomfortable with.

    I agree on the track part. Therefore, your best bet is to sniff out the best deal now for the units facing Tanglin. The TOP is expected to be in Jul/Aug this year. So keep a look out a few months before Jul and you should get a good deal facing Tanglin...

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    Quote Originally Posted by PN
    I like what you say. In fact I think you're the first to say this. Give those in the deep some breathing space.

    I hope you will get the best deal.
    hey

    i always believe that ..let the next person make some money ..

    a friend of mine bought a old 20 yr unit at 750k (1560 sqft) 10yrs ago ..
    during the last boom ...someone was willing to pay 2 mio for it ...as there was enbloc talks at that time ...

    i told my friend to let it go ..pocket the money ...but he wasnt ready to let the other person make some money ( if enbloc, would be 2.5-2.8 mio)

    i said let it go ... you make 1 mio , let the next buyer make 0.5-0.8m but he takes over the RISK (if no enbloc) ...

    he didnt sell ...

    true enuff enbloc didnt go thru ... now its back to 850 psf

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    Quote Originally Posted by proud owner
    hey

    i always believe that ..let the next person make some money ..

    a friend of mine bought a old 20 yr unit at 750k (1560 sqft) 10yrs ago ..
    during the last boom ...someone was willing to pay 2 mio for it ...as there was enbloc talks at that time ...

    i told my friend to let it go ..pocket the money ...but he wasnt ready to let the other person make some money ( if enbloc, would be 2.5-2.8 mio)

    i said let it go ... you make 1 mio , let the next buyer make 0.5-0.8m but he takes over the RISK (if no enbloc) ...

    he didnt sell ...

    true enuff enbloc didnt go thru ... now its back to 850 psf
    Risk, I like this word.

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    Yup.. I have come to believe that in every investment.. there is a cycle..

    Equities, Bonds, Properties..

    The problem with most people is not knowing when to sell..
    There is always opportunities around when you have cash..
    So, why want to hang on to the last drop of profit ..

    Got enough profit, you identify a better opportunity..
    cash out and get into the other one.

    Don't just play property alone..

    But this time round..keke.. everything goes down together..Not like last time.. sell out of the equities bull in time for the property boom ..then sell out of property boom in time for the next equities bull
    So I think invest in any of the asset class is safe.. maybe bonds not as attractive reward relative to equities and properties.

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    Quote Originally Posted by proud owner
    hey

    i always believe that ..let the next person make some money ..

    a friend of mine bought a old 20 yr unit at 750k (1560 sqft) 10yrs ago ..
    during the last boom ...someone was willing to pay 2 mio for it ...as there was enbloc talks at that time ...

    i told my friend to let it go ..pocket the money ...but he wasnt ready to let the other person make some money ( if enbloc, would be 2.5-2.8 mio)

    i said let it go ... you make 1 mio , let the next buyer make 0.5-0.8m but he takes over the RISK (if no enbloc) ...

    he didnt sell ...

    true enuff enbloc didnt go thru ... now its back to 850 psf
    What a waste. You provided a sound advise but it was not sold. Otherwise he would had made a good profit. A typical case of not having a clear mind and being too greedy. Paper gain is not real.

    Always make some profit when there is still opportunity and let the next person win some & bear the risk.

    You are indeed an expert. I also learnt the same from others. It's like a soccer game. Don't hold on to the ball for too long, pass it to the next player. He's the one who will get tackle not you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PN
    What a waste. You provided a sound advise but it was not sold. Otherwise he would had made a good profit. A typical case of not having a clear mind and being too greedy. Paper gain is not real.

    Always make some profit when there is still opportunity and let the next person win some & bear the risk.

    You are indeed an expert. I also learnt the same from others. It's like a soccer game. Don't hold on to the ball for too long, pass it to the next player. He's the one who will get tackle not you.
    know someone who simply refused to sell cos the home is a retirement home for him... End up place kena enbloc, pocketed a bundle, but till today still kpkb and unhappy about the loss of his home... the irony hahaha

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    For me, if Ascentia Sky launches at around 800psf, I will buy it as I am able to afford it without much difficulty. I am confident when the market turns around in 2-3 years time, the prices will be able to move up another 10-20% without much difficulty. This is just my thoughts.[/quote]

    Ascentia Sky by Wing Tai will not be at S$800psf. Imagine they bought at peak of 605psf. Build up cost let say on low side is S$350psf. To balance the cost is min S$955psf. Normally a profit gain of 10-15%, the price is at least 1050psf onward.
    If they sell at S$1000psf after discount for the 1st hour on a VVIP launch.

    I think if they sell 80 units at 1050psf. their share will fall another 15 to 25 cts on that day.

    Metropolitan by now is still can get better bargain before TOP.
    Developer price for facing redhill MRT is ave S$700psf, and facing tanglin is S$800psf. Am i right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by proud owner
    hey

    i always believe that ..let the next person make some money ..

    a friend of mine bought a old 20 yr unit at 750k (1560 sqft) 10yrs ago ..
    during the last boom ...someone was willing to pay 2 mio for it ...as there was enbloc talks at that time ...

    i told my friend to let it go ..pocket the money ...but he wasnt ready to let the other person make some money ( if enbloc, would be 2.5-2.8 mio)

    i said let it go ... you make 1 mio , let the next buyer make 0.5-0.8m but he takes over the RISK (if no enbloc) ...

    he didnt sell ...

    true enuff enbloc didnt go thru ... now its back to 850 psf
    Haha... I have a friend with similar situation. Owning a 5-Rm HDB (Not staying) and not willing to sell at the last boom which he can pocket about double the purchase price. His reason is due to short of 20K from his target price. After the drastic drop, he is more not willing to sell. Finally, after close to 10 years, he then managed to sell now. Should have sold previously and imagine what you could do with the money then till now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PropertiesHunter
    For me, if Ascentia Sky launches at around 800psf, I will buy it as I am able to afford it without much difficulty. I am confident when the market turns around in 2-3 years time, the prices will be able to move up another 10-20% without much difficulty. This is just my thoughts.
    Ascentia Sky by Wing Tai will not be at S$800psf. Imagine they bought at peak of 605psf. Build up cost let say on low side is S$350psf. To balance the cost is min S$955psf. Normally a profit gain of 10-15%, the price is at least 1050psf onward.
    If they sell at S$1000psf after discount for the 1st hour on a VVIP launch.

    I think if they sell 80 units at 1050psf. their share will fall another 15 to 25 cts on that day.

    Metropolitan by now is still can get better bargain before TOP.
    Developer price for facing redhill MRT is ave S$700psf, and facing tanglin is S$800psf. Am i right.[/quote]

    Yes, I think it will be rather interesting to wait and see what will be the eventual launch price for Ascentia Sky. Developer will have to strategize and price it correctly in order to maximize their sale, too high and they will end up with no takers, too low and they can't maximize their profits.

    But if they were to launch it at anything above 1000psf, only the brave heart may bite, not me as I am still sceptical about the economy which is not only affecting the property markets, but having a ripple effect on the stock markets as well.

    Hmmm, I am still not too comfi with the 99LH tag, just me.

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