I will buy rivergate and the sail

[bargain hunter]

repanse71 has helped me worded the message that i wanted to get through more correctly and since i am not a banker and he is, i think he has done a much better job. You are just trying to pick errors from the way i present my sentence and missing the main point that you are trying to perpetuate fear, which i think is misleading others more than my errorneous sentence.

First , you said "not required to top up if valuation falls, as long as pay up monthly installment on time". Now u revise to " It (topup) does not happend as frequent"



Originally Posted by bargain hunter
Property loans do not work like you buy stocks on margin and keep having margin calls.You are not required to top up your loan everytime the valuation falls even if you are in negative equity. The important thing is to be able to keep servicing the monthly loan installment. You are only required to top up your loan when you want to refinance your property and find yourself unable to meet the valuation.

[bargain hunter]

Yup, that should be the factual message which should be put across. Thanks. I need not write anything else with regards to this topic of top-ups anymore.

Everyone's got their opinion, no right or wrong.

Things may be as bad as the last property bust or worse. But, back then, majority of those "below equity" properties still provided positive cashflow and were profitable to the banks. As long as customer continues to service instalments, bank still profits. Bank not stupid for unnecessary top-ups and foreclosure...

regards

[DW]

Hi

Again, this is not true and not bank practice.
See my earlier post on housing loan with OD and TL.

As long as you could pay the installment, bank earns money, no reason to ask for top-up.
Provision and bad-debt is a function of defaults, not valuation.
Forced top-up resulting in more defaults increases provision and bad-debt

People on DPS are in real danger of requiring more cash/CPF as they did not secure loans on the initial purchase price or valuations.

Recent buyer on IAS are not affected due to bank-developer tie-up.

People looking to buy completed properties need to extremely careful about the difference in purchase price and bank valuation as the lower amount determines the loan amount.

regards

This is in line with my earlier post and as be simply illustrated with what you would do if you are indeed part of the credit committee defending your decision.

I tend to agree with repanse71.

The part on bank bad debt provision and write-down, I just want to caution that it might be advisable for such relevant forummers to know what they are talking about before making such postulations and comments. Toxic assets which can be MTMed are assets traded freely in the market where valuations can be done against market valuations - there has to be a readily available market for indexation. Valuation of mortgage loans can be done either by valuation of the underlying mortgage asset (this approach is done only when there is clear signs of a default having occured and/or is contiuning by the mortgagor) or based on book value. In most cases, its done based on book value. The loan book provisioning you see being reported in some of the local banks financial reportings are either (i) default of the loan asset is eminent, (ii) default has already occured, and/or (iii) default is continuing. Do take some time to read their accounting policies, usually point 1 of their accounting notes.

Some likes to talk about broad qualitative statements without much substantiation or well thought through statements. I encourgage such relevant persons to speak with intellect, and supported with well grounded industry expertise and experience before putting forward broad ideas or ideas appear to be sound, which more often than not, in my own view sometimes is quite saddening.

I think everyone wants to encourage positive contributions and perhaps unrestricted flow of ideas from all forummers- but I would like to say, this is quite different from sprouting what you think is correct (especially when there are specific provisions and guidelines either by MAS or in Basel II on how these are classified) without checking or if they are on grounded basis.

[jc]

Well you don't need to agree with me, but hopefully my little opinion will be heard, especially to the people trying to decide where to buy.

The Sail is good if you can buy it cheap like gfoo. If One North is asking $600 psf, well why not? It is a terrific deal if can get at that price. What about The Rochester? Also very very near MRT. The above are 99 yrs.

If you prefer freehold, I feel that Novena Suites is a good investment property because D11, right next to MRT, next to Harry's Bar and Cold Storage. Best of all, its price. Hard to find this kind of development in D9,10,11 without paying an arm and a leg.

D10 Urban Edge @ Holland as well as The Ford are 2 freehold new builds very near Holland MRT on Circle Line. Although Holland MRT is not as direct to Orchard Road and Raffles Place as the North South Line (Novena, Newton) is, it is still heck of a lot more convenient for expat tenants to get around without getting involved in Singapore's horrendous traffic.

The Shelford - quite new, D11, near Botanic Gardens MRT, which will also be an interchange. This is one of the "ang moh" type of condo, low rise, big grounds, greenery and water everywhere.

There are more, so do your own research.

Of the above 3 I prefer Novena Suites because it is really right next door to MRT, Cold Storage and Harry's Bar! An important consideration for expats.

Of course One North is good at $600psf, n if Sail is at $800psf it would be even better. Sorry bro gfoo, i am not talking down the mkt. What i am saying is it boils down to whether a pty at a certain value is worth buying.

I think bro ahlahdin strategy is he loves pty near MRT station. Well i don't dispute that it is an advantage. But i certainly don't fancy smallish developments like Novena Suites, Urban Edge @ Holland, The Ford. They don't have the full facilities of a condo n such developmets are dime a dozen. Which explains why they are cheaper than their peers. Why would a tenant compromise on the lack of facilities when he is prepare to pay the same $$?

And i do happen to know quite a number of bankers n professionals that travel to work by pre-booked cab everyday, door to door comfort. Not sure whether bro ahlahdin understand, but when one can afford, many wouldn't want to take the train. The problem of MRT is if one is living too near the city, it might not necessary be an adv. Ask those that try to catch the morning train peak hr from Kallang to Raffles Place, or from Farrer Park, etc. U would be lucky if u can catch the the 1st 3 trains that comes by. Travelling by train is good if starting point is from Tampines, AMK, etc.

Living at Amber area is a lifestyle, not too far from Raffles or Suntec, n walking distance to Cold Storage, plus Giant n NTUC if that is what bro ahlahdin fancy. Walking to the beach to Big Spash is also 10 min away from Esta, plus the Katong eateries n Pubs. Locals may not appreciate East Coast Park n the proximity to the beach, but when u know your expat friend comes from a place that need 2hrs drive to the beach, East Coast is the place that they want to stay as a lifestyle.

The bonus abt D15 is there are a good number of home stayers (reduced supply for rental), which is a hedge against falling pxs. Unlike some of the downtown projects, majority are investment ie. for rental. Competition (huge supply) drives rental down, n investors take profit n cut loss at a target px, at least that is what i do But ask home owners, the extreme being landed pty, some lived there for decades!!

My point is, the Katong n Marine Parade area will always attract many, just like River Valley would have its fans.

[ahlahdin]

And i do happen to know quite a number of bankers n professionals that travel to work by pre-booked cab everyday, door to door comfort. Not sure whether bro ahlahdin understand, but when one can afford, many wouldn't want to take the train.

Not sure if you understood my point about Singapore's terrible traffic jams.

Unless you're trying to tell me your banker and professional friends travel by pre-booked cabs that can fly above traffic jams.

Sidetracking a little, if said banker and professional were that hot shit, they'd be travelling by 911 Turbo and LP640. In which case traffic ahead of them would part automatically upon hearing engine note and exhaust roar. Yup just like Moses and the Red Sea. Or was it the Dead Sea.

[jc]

Not sure if you understood my point about Singapore's terrible traffic jams.

Unless you're trying to tell me your banker and professional friends travel by pre-booked cabs that can fly above traffic jams.

Sidetracking a little, if said banker and professional were that hot shit, they'd be travelling by 911 Turbo and LP640. In which case traffic ahead of them would part automatically upon hearing engine note and exhaust roar. Yup just like Moses and the Red Sea. Or was it the Dead Sea.

I am not saying there is no jam on the road. I am saying different people prefer different traveling style. Not all love sardined packed train in the morning peak hr, or some prefer the privacy n own space n willing to compromise on the traffic condition.

Have u worked in Raffles Place area b4? Do u know how difficult to get a season parking lot at downtown? Else bro gfoo wouldn't choose to get Sail n walk to office.

Traveling by cab to work is affordable to most pple. Even mid level can afford, don't need super hot shot. They have chauffeur.

Relax bro

[ahlahdin]

Have u worked in Raffles Place area b4? Do u know how difficult to get a season parking lot at downtown? Else bro gfoo wouldn't choose to get Sail n walk to office.

No I didn't know that it was so difficult to get a season parking lot downtown. All my friends who work there have season parking lots offered to them by their firms in their office buildings, including One Raffles Quay.

When you drive an F430 or a Vantage I don't suppose you have to fight very hard for a season parking lot.

But we're not talking about my friends. We are talking about mid to junior level expats on local packages in the banking and/or legal industries. They earn what, only S$15,000 a month? Which is pathetic in GBP and Euro.

[gfoo]

Have u worked in Raffles Place area b4? Do u know how difficult to get a season parking lot at downtown? Else bro gfoo wouldn't choose to get Sail n walk to office.

Relax bro

Season parking is next to impossible to get in Raffles place, and even golden shoe IF you manage to get it costs $250 per month at least. Right now i park w/o season at my office at $350 per month.

I'm parking at the Sail and walking not only coz it saves me parking and fuel money, but coz if i dun start losing some weight, my wife has threatened to go downstairs to harry's and pick up some angmorgao.

bo pian

[orange]

It is a choice between traffic jam sitting in cab and human jam in MRT, since driving their own cars to office is out of the question for mere mortals.

[orange]

Season parking lot in Raffles Place: if you have to open your mouth to ask for one, you're not quite there yet. Those who need to fight for one, well.....

[gfoo]

Season parking lot in Raffles Place: if you have to open your mouth to ask for one, you're not quite there yet. Those who need to fight for one, well.....

pwah..... atas....

[proud owner]

is there any qualified Valuer in this forum ??


yesterday i asked banks for valuation for a TOP-ed project ...which in feb09 was traded at 725 psf ...

to my surprise ..they came back with 485 psf ???????? that was the launch price ..?

meanwhile a neighbouring project still trading at 680-700 psf ...

whats going on ?

what do they base their valuation on ?

[teresa]

Hi, about this bank top-up issue, I've just checked with my banker who mentioned to me that although the bank has the right to request for top-up in case the valuation of yr property head south, they will not take this extreme course of action so long you do not default your monthly payment. Hmmmm, there is still a danger of force payment if you are late for repayment.

[cartman]

Cartman, Mezz72SG,

Do any of you own private properties at all?

own? cannot afford lah i only have 1.5 mil cash now to TRY to own one.

read your own posts and face up to the truth. you posted banks will NEVER ask for topups and we were correcting you on that. we did not post that bank will ALWAYS ask for topups. surely you cannot deny that banks DO ask for topups.

[cartman]

is there any qualified Valuer in this forum ??


yesterday i asked banks for valuation for a TOP-ed project ...which in feb09 was traded at 725 psf ...

to my surprise ..they came back with 485 psf ???????? that was the launch price ..?

meanwhile a neighbouring project still trading at 680-700 psf ...

whats going on ?

what do they base their valuation on ?

care to share which project was that? maybe banks are just being prudent now.

maybe their thought is why would they loan someone $2 million based on a property collateral which is worth only $1.4 million down the road even though that person is paying his monthly installment promptly

[cartman]

Hi, about this bank top-up issue, I've just checked with my banker who mentioned to me that although the bank has the right to request for top-up in case the valuation of yr property head south, they will not take this extreme course of action so long you do not default your monthly payment. Hmmmm, there is still a danger of force payment if you are late for repayment.

some banks are like fair weather friends...sunny days offer you free umbrella, rainy days, they want to take it back

[focus]

care to share which project was that? maybe banks are just being prudent now.

maybe their thought is why would they loan someone $2 million based on a property collateral which is worth only $1.4 million down the road even though that person is paying his monthly installment promptly

Maybe that person has more than the $1.4mil in property collateral to back him up?

I know my bankers are offering me no tenure , pay the principal when you want, no penalty... and pay only interest (cost of fund + 0.5-1% depending on market condition) for as long as you want.

[repanse71]

ALWAYS do vs DO ask?
Possible vs Probable?
what is happening against what can happen?

We share what we know in the everyone's best interests.

Regards

own? cannot afford lah i only have 1.5 mil cash now to TRY to own one.

read your own posts and face up to the truth. you posted banks will NEVER ask for topups and we were correcting you on that. we did not post that bank will ALWAYS ask for topups. surely you cannot deny that banks DO ask for topups.

[proud owner]

care to share which project was that? maybe banks are just being prudent now.

maybe their thought is why would they loan someone $2 million based on a property collateral which is worth only $1.4 million down the road even though that person is paying his monthly installment promptly

bank said they got their valuation from DTZ ..

so thats biased ..
if DTZ wants to actively sell RG ..they can give a valn of 1200 psf then RG can never fall below that ..regardless mkt sentiment ..

if DTZ doesnt want to sell Cosmopolitan ..they can give a valn of 900 psf ..

strange right ???

[repanse71]

Very unfair and naive statement.

No one owes anyone a living. No one is forced to take the umbrella. Bank only take umbrella back from those who anyhow take umbrella. Bank's not your parent to question why you anyhow take umbrella in the first place.

Regards

some banks are like fair weather friends...sunny days offer you free umbrella, rainy days, they want to take it back

[repanse71]

@Proud_Owner

To be fair to the bank and DTZ, could you give more details, not half information? You only answer half the question asked by fellow forum-er.

Which project/development? What neighbouring project you talking about?

Regards

bank said they got their valuation from DTZ ..

so thats biased ..
if DTZ wants to actively sell RG ..they can give a valn of 1200 psf then RG can never fall below that ..regardless mkt sentiment ..

if DTZ doesnt want to sell Cosmopolitan ..they can give a valn of 900 psf ..

strange right ???

[cartman]

Very unfair and naive statement.

No one owes anyone a living. No one is forced to take the umbrella. Bank only take umbrella back from those who anyhow take umbrella. Bank's not your parent to question why you anyhow take umbrella in the first place.

Regards

wah, so sensitive are you a banker? its unfortunate that the minibonds saga have made them a villified lot

[HP65]

@Proud_Owner

To be fair to the bank and DTZ, could you give more details, not half information? You only answer half the question asked by fellow forum-er.

Which project/development? What neighbouring project you talking about?

Regards

May I ask which bank do you work in? I want to borrow from your bank because you said your bank do not normally ask owner to top up.

Hope you will answer this question from a fellow forum-er.

Thx!

[proud owner]

@Proud_Owner

To be fair to the bank and DTZ, could you give more details, not half information? You only answer half the question asked by fellow forum-er.

Which project/development? What neighbouring project you talking about?

Regards

the one i ask is FH stellar while the nighbuor is 99 yr varsity park

are you from DTZ ??

[cartman]

Maybe that person has more than the $1.4mil in property collateral to back him up?

I know my bankers are offering me no tenure , pay the principal when you want, no penalty... and pay only interest (cost of fund + 0.5-1% depending on market condition) for as long as you want.

you atas mah but such loans are great in a hot property market.

you have any advice for someone looking to buy property now? say i have 1.5 million cash, should i just buy one unit and pay cash or should i take a loan? i do not forsee a need to use the cash for any other purpose and its rotting in the banks anyway with their miserable interest rates.

[HP65]

Hi all

If you only have housing loan, no overdraft nor term loans, as long as you service your monthly installment, you are safe and will NOT be asked to top up when valuations falls.

When are you in danger of top up when valuation falls?
1. When you have OD. Either the bank may cut/cancel the OD, or you TOP up.
2. Valuation drops adversely between the loan acceptance and disbursement. i.e. For initial $1m condo with $800k loan, prior to disbursement, $1m->$800k, so need to top up $160k. Usually, this will not affect new launches due to bank-developer tie-up.
3. Refinancing. It's always based on latest valuations.

I work in a bank, I know why some people were asked to top up.
Stop causing and perpetuating unnecessary fear based on unsubstantiated claims and hearsay.

Many of my friends and relatives ask me this top-up question. To date, none has been asked to top up. However, 1 friend has his OD cut 50% by bank so that overall LTV remains <= 80%.

regards

Care to share which bank do you work in? I want to do business with your bank. Thx.

[repanse71]

Very pek cheh ah.

The very very select few in investment banking who earns $millions are now happily retired and sipping their penis colada in bali, maui... leaving other bankers who earn peanuts suffering the aftermath...

Regards

wah, so sensitive are you a banker? its unfortunate that the minibonds saga have made them a villified lot

[repanse71]

Just go with a local bank. We have 25% chance of meeting.

Care to share which bank do you work in? I want to do business with your bank. Thx.

[proud owner]

Just go with a local bank. We have 25% chance of meeting.

i replied to you questions

stellar and varsity park ...

so whats your verdict about the valuation ?

[cartman]

Very pek cheh ah.

The very very select few in investment banking who earns $millions are now happily retired and sipping their penis colada in bali, maui... leaving other bankers who earn peanuts suffering the aftermath...

Regards

haha but for folks in their league, those millions are not enough and they will soon be back for more

back to property, its seems like the local banks are more "bullish" as compared to the foreign banks. maybe its due to the vested interests of the local banks not wanting the property market to collapse.

looking forward, what is the view of your bank in terms of loans and valuations for newly TOP properties? are they generally offering loans based on significantly lower than buyers' asking prices?