Will Rivergate hit 1k psf and below?

[Douk]

Why faster buy for home stay and not for investment???

What do you think the market will be heading for the next 6 months???

below are the analysts said :-

"Analysts say a sustained increase in the price index that develops into a full-blown rally by end of the year is unlikely. A more probable scenario is a plateau: prices and sales stabilizing at their current levels for the next few months, with occasional moderate dips or increases, until there is more certainty about economic outlook next year."

also dont understand the logic, why own stay can buy at high price ?

[EBD]

also dont understand the logic, why own stay can buy at high price ?

exactly. apparently agents dont think it hurts you to buy high and pay unnecessary high mortgage. Its just their spin to make sure at least someones buying.

would you rather buy and live in the same property for 500k or 700k? It's really that simple.

now what the market does is a different thing all together but this is one lame argument.

As a home owner and investor I would want to enter the market for both at the same time.

[eng00701]

also dont understand the logic, why own stay can buy at high price ?

Would-be buyers hoping for another crash in the market are likely to be disappointed unless a major shock takes place, such as a delayed economic recovery, a stock market collapse or H1N1 virus turning more deadly, analysts say.

i believe what he meant was if for own stay, can buy if find ideal home since u can end up waiting indefinitely for substantial drop if the property trend follows plateau as predicted by analysts. but for investment, a wait and see approach may be more prudent in view of the uncertainty. if prices drop then can make a move, if prices go up then wait for next cycle lo. no rush if you already got home.

[DKSG]

I just bought an own stay unit a few months back.

My opinion is :

Own stay : The main factor here is affordability and how much u like the area or location. Trust me, finding a place you really like and want to stay rooted for the next decade is no simple feat. U will have to draw out a list of things u want. Units per floor, view, location, private life or not, total number of units in the condo, facilities, and the list goes on and on. So if you find one that really fit the bill. You should try to get it! Esp if the Feng Shui Master also says that is a perfect house for you!

Why people say price may not be very relevant, it means as long as you can comfortably afford it. Paying an additional 50K or so for a unit that suit you perfectly is worth more than the 50K or so (depending on how rich you are la!).

For investment : The simple rules. Pricing. Expectation of the market in the next 6-12 months. Yield. Location, Master plan, etc.

Thus you may end up being able to buy a 1.5 million property for investment, but cannot afford the same 1.5 million property for own stay. Investment property, if you choose correctly, will feed itself. The rental will pay for everything, instalments, maint, property tax, agents comm, etc. And still able to give u a few dollars to bring home !

[Honesty]

Thus you may end up being able to buy a 1.5 million property for investment, but cannot afford the same 1.5 million property for own stay.

1.5 million property is for the 'Ang Mo' to stay, so that we can 'chop their carrot head'

Let them pay for our enjoyment. chop! chop! chop! chop ang mo ang mo kow.

[august]

Why faster buy for home stay and not for investment???

What do you think the market will be heading for the next 6 months???

below are the analysts said :-

"Analysts say a sustained increase in the price index that develops into a full-blown rally by end of the year is unlikely. A more probable scenario is a plateau: prices and sales stabilizing at their current levels for the next few months, with occasional moderate dips or increases, until there is more certainty about economic outlook next year."

ok clarify a bit, i not agent.. wat i meant is for own stay u shld have faster bought, ideally a few mths ago hehe.. i hv said so since start of yr bcos no one can so zhun & time the price bottom accurately. obviously u go buy now during a mini "boom" u will be helping agents and sellers to chase the price up and that is a no no ~

u see hor for own stay u may not get the unit u want, so u see a unit u like and want & as long as price is within affordability for u i say buy liao.. between paying the diff of 50 to 100psf and not getting ur choice unit to stay u hv to make a decision lor

for investment, investors care less whether low floor high floor afternoon sun etc.. so choice of units matters less compared to mkt has bottomed or not

[august]

also dont understand the logic, why own stay can buy at high price ?

not asking anyone to buy at high price lah

what is your 'high price'?
is it the bubble peak high of 07-08 or 04-05? or is it high to based on one's affordability?

i reckon the ppl entering the mkt this past 1 to 2 mths contributing to the mini pty rally are the ones who can afford the peak price of 07-08. But no one wants to buy high right? so they stayed out. Now that mkt has plunged from the peak, prices hv become more affordable to them, so they went in.

those who totally cannot afford the peak price of 07-08, and still find the current price (dropped from 07-08 peak) too high, my advice is stay out...

[Honesty]

ok clarify a bit, i not agent.. wat i meant is for own stay u shld have faster bought, ideally a few mths ago hehe.. i hv said so since start of yr bcos no one can so zhun & time the price bottom accurately. obviously u go buy now during a mini "boom" u will be helping agents and sellers to chase the price up and that is a no no ~

u see hor for own stay u may not get the unit u want, so u see a unit u like and want & as long as price is within affordability for u i say buy liao.. between paying the diff of 50 to 100psf and not getting ur choice unit to stay u hv to make a decision lor

for investment, investors care less whether low floor high floor afternoon sun etc.. so choice of units matters less compared to mkt has bottomed or not

Right, I see your point. Few months ago (6 months) is a good buy for home stay. For now I would not buy even if I see something I like, as there will be plenty of new or old (but good) units coming along.

By year end prices will fall again...unless Real economy really improved.

Real property move up only when Real economy move up.

[august]

Right, I see your point. Few months ago (6 months) is a good buy for home stay. For now I would not buy even if I see something I like, as there will be plenty of new or old (but good) units coming along.

By year end prices will fall again...unless Real economy really improved.

Real property move up only when Real economy move up.

yes i also feel the mkt is trending down, so if not in any real hurry or picky over choice units it is better to wait

[panamera]

RG appeals to mainly expats, so it is mostly owned by investors/speculators. My wife once said that she would not live there, as there are too many foreigners hanging around there drunk and looking for cheap thrills. And there are no good schools in the area. thus, it is reasonable to assume that the rental yield at RG is highly correlated with tourism and GDP growth, both of which are going to be below the trend line for several years. Tourism is going to be hit hard as the L-shaped recovery becomes apparent to all.

RG is going to get hit really hard for another reason. It is the target of speculators, those that buy but not wiling to live in the development. when a condo is targeted by the speculators, that means it does not have good fundamentals and its price is supported by something like a ponzi scheme. thus, the price is likely to over-shoot either on the upside or the down side. thus, I predict the price will go below 1000. 700 is not entirely out of the question, but that would become a reality only if economy really tanks, which is unlikely given that politicians are printing money like crazy to support the economy.

bottom line, this is no a develpment for family, and as a speculator-infested development, RG is going to have wild swing in price, so if you buy today, be prepared to take a rough ride.

listen to my wife, she said "even at 1000 psf, I wouldn't live there. I don't want to mingle with wild tourists in that area." that sums it up.

So you rather stay at the Carabelle, besides the AYE?, where there are no tourists to hit on your wife?

If you have been to that part of town, there are not as much wild tourists as your wife fears. Tenants for RG and those in the vicinity do not rely on tourists. Tourist arrivals have no bearing on lease take-ups.. Tourists stay at hotels for short stay.

Tenants are long stay expats, which depends on economic growth.

If RG will hit 900 psf as what you expects, what will the Carabelle be in end 2010 for comparison in your "expert" opinion?

[focus]

So you rather stay at the Carabelle, besides the AYE?, where there are no tourists to hit on your wife?

If you have been to that part of town, there are not as much wild tourists as your wife fears. Tenants for RG and those in the vicinity do not rely on tourists. Tourist arrivals have no bearing on lease take-ups.. Tourists stay at hotels for short stay.

Tenants are long stay expats, which depends on economic growth.

If RG will hit 900 psf as what you expects, what will the Carabelle be in end 2010 for comparison in your "expert" opinion?

Wa.. it's even worse.. If tourists, at least the wife gets hit on once a while.. if it's long-stay tenant, the wife gets hit every day while you are at work..

[Douk]

actually, even for own stay, you wouldnt want your property to depreciate 50% few years down the road and reach back the peak price at what you have paid for. unless for those who really in need of a place urgently, why need to buy one for own stay now. this is not the time to buy at all.

I just bought an own stay unit a few months back.

My opinion is :

Own stay : The main factor here is affordability and how much u like the area or location. Trust me, finding a place you really like and want to stay rooted for the next decade is no simple feat. U will have to draw out a list of things u want. Units per floor, view, location, private life or not, total number of units in the condo, facilities, and the list goes on and on. So if you find one that really fit the bill. You should try to get it! Esp if the Feng Shui Master also says that is a perfect house for you!

Why people say price may not be very relevant, it means as long as you can comfortably afford it. Paying an additional 50K or so for a unit that suit you perfectly is worth more than the 50K or so (depending on how rich you are la!).

For investment : The simple rules. Pricing. Expectation of the market in the next 6-12 months. Yield. Location, Master plan, etc.

Thus you may end up being able to buy a 1.5 million property for investment, but cannot afford the same 1.5 million property for own stay. Investment property, if you choose correctly, will feed itself. The rental will pay for everything, instalments, maint, property tax, agents comm, etc. And still able to give u a few dollars to bring home !

[Douk]

i think you are quite right.

but, when even a bank dare not match the asking price, i guess, it is very clear, price is too high.

when the property price turn bullish without fundament support like economy growth, inflow of foreign talent (rental), improve job markets, etc. price is too high.

not asking anyone to buy at high price lah

what is your 'high price'?
is it the bubble peak high of 07-08 or 04-05? or is it high to based on one's affordability?

i reckon the ppl entering the mkt this past 1 to 2 mths contributing to the mini pty rally are the ones who can afford the peak price of 07-08. But no one wants to buy high right? so they stayed out. Now that mkt has plunged from the peak, prices hv become more affordable to them, so they went in.

those who totally cannot afford the peak price of 07-08, and still find the current price (dropped from 07-08 peak) too high, my advice is stay out...

[proud owner]

i think you are quite right.

but, when even a bank dare not match the asking price, i guess, it is very clear, price is too high.

when the property price turn bullish without fundament support like economy growth, inflow of foreign talent (rental), improve job markets, etc. price is too high.

if a bank doesnt match UP to a sellign price for an old project, how can they match the even higher price of new launch ??

i suspect new launches may have some kind of 'guarantee' from developers ..or some kind of credit tied to the developers ..as oppose to individuals for old projects ..

just doesnt make sense if bank cant match say 1300 psf for Valley park but can grant the same or higher for rivergate ?

[Douk]

if a bank doesnt match UP to a sellign price for an old project, how can they match the even higher price of new launch ??

i suspect new launches may have some kind of 'guarantee' from developers ..or some kind of credit tied to the developers ..as oppose to individuals for old projects ..

just doesnt make sense if bank cant match say 1300 psf for Valley park but can grant the same or higher for rivergate ?

yah, i also think there must be some kind of benefit or risk sharing the developer tie up with banks.

[proud owner]

yah, i also think there must be some kind of benefit or risk sharing the developer tie up with banks.

remember not too long ago .. developers and valuer had a conversation ??

and valuers put the blame on banks being conservatives ...?

after that all of a sudden new launches banks match ALL their psf ...

[vin002]

actually, even for own stay, you wouldnt want your property to depreciate 50% few years down the road and reach back the peak price at what you have paid for. unless for those who really in need of a place urgently, why need to buy one for own stay now. this is not the time to buy at all.

I agree that no one will want the price of their property to fall by 50%. But, like you have just mentioned, unless urgently needed a place. Since last year Nov08 onwards, a lot of people put off purchases of property till this May-09. Although it is just only half a year, a lot of people are caught off guard by the sudden increase in price. If they are urgently in need a place, they most likely panic now which contributed the increase as well.

[august]

actually, even for own stay, you wouldnt want your property to depreciate 50% few years down the road and reach back the peak price at what you have paid for. unless for those who really in need of a place urgently, why need to buy one for own stay now. this is not the time to buy at all.

maybe got 2 kinds of own-stay..

1. own stay with a view to asset appreciation.. half invest half own stay kind.. most ppl fall into this category

2. really own stay... those cash rich ppl who paid over 800k for HDB kind ~ lol

[jitkiat]

maybe got 2 kinds of own-stay..

1. own stay with a view to asset appreciation.. half invest half own stay kind.. most ppl fall into this category

2. really own stay... those cash rich ppl who paid over 800k for HDB kind ~ lol

IMO, buying 99LH mass market condo for own stay is plain risky especially if you have to borrow 80%. From 1996 until now, only those who bought in 1998 and those bought in 2003/2004 make $$. The return is much worse compared to HDB. You are paying a high price for own stay in this case.

[august]

IMO, buying 99LH mass market condo for own stay is plain risky especially if you have to borrow 80%. From 1996 until now, only those who bought in 1998 and those bought in 2003/2004 make $$. The return is much worse compared to HDB. You are paying a high price for own stay in this case.

yes as u already said liao, mass market condo 99LH
if looking for return as opposed to own stay, then location is key..
e.g. the sail is 99LH, 1111 units and the quality is mass market, but is high investment grade



i think most of the time investment and own stay r mutually exclusive, v difficult to be able to hv your cake and eat it too
this is wat the seasoned pty investors tell me wor...

[pweesng]

to me...of course i do not represents the general public.

buying for investment vs buying for own stay... there is no difference.... except that if you are buying for your own stay, you need to be sure you are comfortable in that area...

Otherwise, ownstay or investments, i am sure you do not want your property to depreciate... in fact 9 out of 10, if the price is right, will sell the "ownstay" place anyway!

also, for ownstay, all the more the pricing is important... because, one day, if the bank decides to make a margin call, you cannot liquidate and pay off the loan...

so i really don't know why people always differentiate between investments and ownstay...

[august]

to me...of course i do not represents the general public.

buying for investment vs buying for own stay... there is no difference.... except that if you are buying for your own stay, you need to be sure you are comfortable in that area...

Otherwise, ownstay or investments, i am sure you do not want your property to depreciate... in fact 9 out of 10, if the price is right, will sell the "ownstay" place anyway!

also, for ownstay, all the more the pricing is important... because, one day, if the bank decides to make a margin call, you cannot liquidate and pay off the loan...

so i really don't know why people always differentiate between investments and ownstay...

if u hv family, own stay means u need a 3 or 4 bedder

investment u heck care liao, studio or 2 bedder can already.. location is important bcos some area studio dun make sense or bigger units easier to rent out, whereas for other areas bigger units dun make investment sense, or harder to rent or dispose.. just my puny 2 cents

[pweesng]

if u hv family, own stay means u need a 3 or 4 bedder

investment u heck care liao, studio or 2 bedder can already.. location is important bcos some area studio dun make sense or bigger units easier to rent out, whereas for other areas bigger units dun make investment sense, or harder to rent or dispose.. just my puny 2 cents

I also beg to differ with this. For own stay, i may need a 3 bedder or more.. or i may just need a 2 bedder... more and more young families chose to be childless or only one kid. Essentially there isn't a need for a big space.

For investments, i also won't restrict myself to 2 bed rooms unless we factor in affordability. if i can afford it, i'll definitely get a bigger unit. bear in mind, bigger units are easier to rent out these days. Market seems to be flooded with 2 bedrooms out for rental.

my 2 cents worth too.

[jitkiat]

I also beg to differ with this. For own stay, i may need a 3 bedder or more.. or i may just need a 2 bedder... more and more young families chose to be childless or only one kid. Essentially there isn't a need for a big space.

For investments, i also won't restrict myself to 2 bed rooms unless we factor in affordability. if i can afford it, i'll definitely get a bigger unit. bear in mind, bigger units are easier to rent out these days. Market seems to be flooded with 2 bedrooms out for rental.

my 2 cents worth too.

It depends on your lifestyle. If you want to stay near cultural/entertainment events then stay at City Hall/Raffles Place/Dhoby Ghaut area is good. IF you want a quiet/serene lifestyle (like those in WFW threads), then place like Bedok Reservoir or Upper Bukit Timah is good. Buying something that has big investment potential + suit your lifestyle sometimes are conflicting requirements.

Cultural
Shopping
Peace, quiet, good air
Seaview
Convenience to work
Near good school for kid

The list goes on

[Douk]

there are many good location with good investment value that meet these so called " conflicting requirement" such as meyer road, shelford, nassim, Ardmore, etc. dont have to go to bedok or Upper BT... and definitely no conflicting requirements.

It depends on your lifestyle. If you want to stay near cultural/entertainment events then stay at City Hall/Raffles Place/Dhoby Ghaut area is good. IF you want a quiet/serene lifestyle (like those in WFW threads), then place like Bedok Reservoir or Upper Bukit Timah is good. Buying something that has big investment potential + suit your lifestyle sometimes are conflicting requirements.

Cultural
Shopping
Peace, quiet, good air
Seaview
Convenience to work
Near good school for kid

The list goes on

[jitkiat]

there are many good location with good investment value that meet these so called " conflicting requirement" such as meyer road, shelford, nassim, Ardmore, etc. dont have to go to bedok or Upper BT... and definitely no conflicting requirements.

Yah, but many people cannot afford it. Most important requirement is affordability.

[minority]

interested in RG but my budget is only max 1k psf ... would like to seek the opinion of the lao jiaos here ... in your opinion, do you think RG will hit 1k psf or below?
i see that there are > 160 units on sale and > 320 units for rent atm.. will the price hold at the current avg 1.2k~1.3k level?

i u buy in march its under 1K.. roberston 100, watermark.. now ah... wait long long liao

[pweesng]

if you work on the basis of yield, yes.. the price shoudl be around 1k psf... however, given that quite a few buyers / owners of RG bought it above that price, it may be unlikely that they will sell it at below that given that it is not that difficult to get loans these days.

but if it gets to that stage, i'll be more than happy to have a look at that project. Right now it is also out of my reach, economically.

[proud owner]

if you work on the basis of yield, yes.. the price shoudl be around 1k psf... however, given that quite a few buyers / owners of RG bought it above that price, it may be unlikely that they will sell it at below that given that it is not that difficult to get loans these days.

but if it gets to that stage, i'll be more than happy to have a look at that project. Right now it is also out of my reach, economically.

i dont believe there are alot of RG owners who bought to stay ..

the great pct of owners are trying to rent them out .. what kind of yield are we talking about ?

its miserable .. but some will argue that its still higher than leaving the money in the bank ... if you belong to this group then go buy and rent out ..

if you want higher return .. just forget RG ... for that matter .. forget most projects launched lately

[jitkiat]

i dont believe there are alot of RG owners who bought to stay ..

the great pct of owners are trying to rent them out .. what kind of yield are we talking about ?

its miserable .. but some will argue that its still higher than leaving the money in the bank ... if you belong to this group then go buy and rent out ..

if you want higher return .. just forget RG ... for that matter .. forget most projects launched lately

I think the right question to ask is besides property in SG, where else can you get higher return with the same risk. I am in favor of BRIC stocks but it has higher volatility.