Illuminaire (D9, Freehold, EL Development)

[HP65]

dunno much about the IS. is it any good?

Personally, the IS an even more wannabe...a 320 wannabe. And I can't get over the fact that it feels just so japanese. Could be because Lexus major market is US and the American's who are used to their own lux models from GM, Ford are willing to accept the superior (c/w US cars) interior of a lexus. But c/w premium conti, even if JD Power reports shows a lot of them has quality issues, somehow its feels different...less plasticky (except for BMW).

[teddybear]

Please check this website for "BMW 3 Series Sedan 320i (A) 2009" selling Latest Price: S$131,800 (9 Apr 2009):
http://www.oneshift.com/pdb/car_overview.php?pid=654

By the way, this selling price is from BMW authorized dealer:
Performance Motors Ltd Address: 303 Alexandra Road #01-01 Singapore 159941
Tel: 6319 0100 Web: http://www.pml.com.sg/bmw/

(Go to parallel importer will be even cheaper!)

Come on, nowsdays with internet, want to bluff who? Don't be a idiot who knows how to stick head in the sand and sprout nonsense as though people won't know you are sprouting nonsense.
you are a laughing stock here..........

(The BMW 320i is just about $130k!)

obviously an idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about, no wonder we have such idiots in the forum telling others that many tom dick and harrys with only 8K/mth combined household income can easily buy million dollar homes. and telling others that properties are cheap now and you will regret if you don't buy now

[dtrax]

lol severely off-topic liao.. please open a new thread at www.bmw-sg.com

[cartman]

Thanks for telling me that. From your statement, I can be very sure that you cannot be the 'really rich' one.

lol, already stated so clearly before that other than you, i am probably the poorest in this forum

[cartman]

Please check this website for "BMW 3 Series Sedan 320i (A) 2009" selling Latest Price: S$131,800 (9 Apr 2009):
http://www.oneshift.com/pdb/car_overview.php?pid=654

By the way, this selling price is from BMW authorized dealer:
Performance Motors Ltd Address: 303 Alexandra Road #01-01 Singapore 159941
Tel: 6319 0100 Web: http://www.pml.com.sg/bmw/

(Go to parallel importer will be even cheaper!)

Come on, nowsdays with internet, want to bluff who? Don't be a idiot who knows how to stick head in the sand and sprout nonsense as though people won't know you are sprouting nonsense.
you are a laughing stock here..........

this is a classic example of a keyboard idiot. imagine posting as facts what he reads from the internet without any inkling of what the real situation is

the beemer i bought was listed at a much higher price than that but any idiot will know that when you are a genuine buyer, the actual price is very much lower

all this talk about performance motors and bmw from someone who obviously has not gone beyond browsing pricelists online try to walk into the showrooms at alexandra or bukit timah for a test drive and if the SE think you can afford to buy one, they may quote you the real price instead of from a standard pricelist to brush you off

[teddybear]

This is so typical of such idiotic response from you, the comments made as though you are "GOD" and you can "predict" (but to others they know you are "halucinating") what will happen in the future (e.g. property prices will sure drop). Now, you are predicting I am poorer than you? . Never mind, you can continue to halucinate about this. It is perfectly fine with me and I still enjoy poking fun of such idiot for entertainment and everyone here has the right mind to know who is the idiotic one.
I believe many here enjoy the entertainment from you as well.

lol, already stated so clearly before that other than you, i am probably the poorest in this forum

[teddybear]

OK, rich man, I am just "too poor to walk into the BMW showroom" (if this makes you happier).

Anyway, I really don't understand why anybody would want to buy an "Ah Beng" car such as BMW which is not value-for-money at such "carrothead" price (even after knowing the so-called "real-price" which is cheaper than the standard pricelist) unless he is so "Ah Beng"! Ha ha!

Oh, by the way, $131k already so cheap for branded cars and you are telling me that it is just the standard pricelist? Wah, the cheaper "real-price" must be really cheap! After knowing this, this really confirm many people's impression that the BMW 320i although branded as luxury car but is really an "Ah Beng" car and it is for those who want to show that "I don't have too much money but I still want to show off and this is the limit I can show off". Ha ha! Funny clown! Really makes people laugh! We are really entertained here!

this is a classic example of a keyboard idiot. imagine posting as facts what he reads from the internet without any inkling of what the real situation is

the beemer i bought was listed at a much higher price than that but any idiot will know that when you are a genuine buyer, the actual price is very much lower

all this talk about performance motors and bmw from someone who obviously has not gone beyond browsing pricelists online try to walk into the showrooms at alexandra or bukit timah for a test drive and if the SE think you can afford to buy one, they may quote you the real price instead of from a standard pricelist to brush you off

[HP65]

OK, rich man, I am just "too poor to walk into the BMW showroom" (if this makes you happier).

Anyway, I really don't understand why anybody would want to buy an "Ah Beng" car such as BMW which is not value-for-money at such "carrothead" price (even after knowing the so-called "real-price" which is cheaper than the standard pricelist) unless he is so "Ah Beng"! Ha ha!

Oh, by the way, $131k already so cheap for branded cars and you are telling me that it is just the standard pricelist? Wah, the cheaper "real-price" must be really cheap! After knowing this, this really confirm many people's impression that the BMW 320i although branded as luxury car but is really an "Ah Beng" car and it is for those who want to show that "I don't have too much money but I still want to show off and this is the limit I can show off". Ha ha! Funny clown! Really makes people laugh! We are really entertained here!

Wat a loser, with a capital `L'. After being exposed for talking rubbish and just know how to quote online articles and information (both relating to cars and property), all you can muster is just further name-calling? Get a life, kid. Property is not your game. Be careful or you may lose your family....its like gambling. Or are you already holding on to a hot potato and knew that you will lose your $$ soon if property prices do not recover soon?

Which could explain why you are trying so desperately to urge people to buy now, even though its very clear to many that property prices WILL go down. And it doesn't take super-natural power to know that. Just common sense and logic. You have been taunting people and asking if they are `God' a few days back because they say property prices will drop. Well, URA index has shown prices has dropped. I'm definitely not supernatural being, but I knew prices will drop. Come to think of it, it appears you are the devil constantly trying to get people into trouble by asking people to buy properties now. So pls refrain from using the word `God' in vain. Its blasphemy and distasteful.

[HP65]

OK, rich man, I am just "too poor to walk into the BMW showroom" (if this makes you happier).

Anyway, I really don't understand why anybody would want to buy an "Ah Beng" car such as BMW which is not value-for-money at such "carrothead" price (even after knowing the so-called "real-price" which is cheaper than the standard pricelist) unless he is so "Ah Beng"! Ha ha!

Oh, by the way, $131k already so cheap for branded cars and you are telling me that it is just the standard pricelist? Wah, the cheaper "real-price" must be really cheap! After knowing this, this really confirm many people's impression that the BMW 320i although branded as luxury car but is really an "Ah Beng" car and it is for those who want to show that "I don't have too much money but I still want to show off and this is the limit I can show off". Ha ha! Funny clown! Really makes people laugh! We are really entertained here!

And btw, if you want to commit financial sucide, do it yourself. Pls do not encourage others to join in your death train. I have never known anyone who were bankrupt because they were holding cash. But I have certainly seen lots of cases whereby they have lost lifesavings or substantial amount of their retirement funds due to buying property at the peak and over-stretching themselves with leverage. And if anyone is worried holding cash will erode their value through inflation, just buy gold. Go to UOB and buy their physical gold using your cash. That is the real hedge against inflation in these times when property prices are still high and if you are afraid of losing the value of cash. Definitely not buying over-price properties. The decline in property prices will certainly outpace inflation.

[HP65]

lol.. the crass cartman is back sprouting dooms day msg. if you are so convinced that prices are going down -why dont u also sell ur father, mother, wife, dick (dont know if u have) and short the market? I reckon u are just another loud mouth anyway.

btw - everytime u sprout rubbish - i will be here to give u a hard bong to ur dick - regardless if u try to laugh it off or not i am sure with ur so many lol - ur face must be twisted now. ouch!

Check it out! Official URA index shows property index has dropped again Now the vacancy rate is 5.9% I can't wait to see more properties TOP in the coming months, and more exodus of expats, and see the vacency rate hit 10%. Now, that will be a delight for those who patiently wait for prices to drop. That will be the time all you jokers who ask people to buy now disappear into thin air, never to come back into this forum to post your rubbish again because you would have realised your folly and would have been working hard and your socks off to pay off your 35 year mortagage, that is if you are fortunate enough to still keep your job or be able to find a job. I shudder to think a worse case scenario

[teddybear]

Are you BLIND? Did I not make myself very clear in this forum that "I didn't ask people to BUY or SELL"? Since I didn't, I don't understand what you are trying to drive at. Another idiotic LOSER here just like your good buddy cartman who like to presume and then make all sort of assumptions & guesses.

Wat a loser, with a capital `L'. After being exposed for talking rubbish and just know how to quote online articles and information (both relating to cars and property), all you can muster is just further name-calling? Get a life, kid. Property is not your game. Be careful or you may lose your family....its like gambling. Or are you already holding on to a hot potato and knew that you will lose your $$ soon if property prices do not recover soon?

Which could explain why you are trying so desperately to urge people to buy now, even though its very clear to many that property prices WILL go down. And it doesn't take super-natural power to know that. Just common sense and logic. You have been taunting people and asking if they are `God' a few days back because they say property prices will drop. Well, URA index has shown prices has dropped. I'm definitely not supernatural being, but I knew prices will drop. Come to think of it, it appears you are the devil constantly trying to get people into trouble by asking people to buy properties now. So pls refrain from using the word `God' in vain. Its blasphemy and distasteful.

[hk2313]

HP65 and Teddybear, you both talk too much rubbish that does not belong in this thread at all........

Everybody entitled to their own opinion......

My personal one is that we have reached the bottom in general (though of course that does not mean for every individual condo, and of course, there will be some good deals and emergency sales still).....but at least if one is buying for own stay, does it really matter in the long run if price will drop 5% more or not.....

[teddybear]

My reply to you previously:
"Are you BLIND? Did I not make myself very clear in this forum that "I didn't ask people to BUY or SELL"? Since I didn't, I don't understand what you are trying to drive at. Another idiotic LOSER here just like your good buddy cartman who like to presume and then make all sort of assumptions & guesses. "

Presumptions, Presumptions, Presumptions! Now we are seeing another "GOD"-like character like cartman! How do you know people will be commiting financial suicide if they buy now? May be people who buy now will be making lots of money 3-5 years down the road? (though I am not telling people to BUY now because I have no such capability to foresee future and it is best left to individual to decide). So, who know whether it is the right time to BUY or SELL now? If you say BUYING now is financial suicide and that the property is over-priced now and the property price will certainly decline vs infation (as you mentioned: "Definitely not buying over-price properties. The decline in property prices will certainly outpace inflation"), you are doing on the presumption that even 3-5 years down the road property price will not recover higher than now. NOW, who can confidently say such thing except "GOD"? So, this just exposed another LOSER and a liar if he can say all this with confidence!

Now worst still, you are advocating people to buy PHYSICAL GOLD? Is GOLD a real hedge against inflation? My Gosh! People who buy private property now can still live in and enjoy the facilities while waiting for it to appreciate. People who buy physical gold which does not earn interest and still have to incur handling charges etc may be they can eat some GOLD while waiting for the price to go up so that they can sell later? (because nobody knows whether GOLD will go up or go down in future!). You are advocating to consider buying GOLD meaning you are telling people GOLD will go up in FUTURE? I better let the others think about these and decide for themselves.

And btw, if you want to commit financial sucide, do it yourself. Pls do not encourage others to join in your death train. I have never known anyone who were bankrupt because they were holding cash. But I have certainly seen lots of cases whereby they have lost lifesavings or substantial amount of their retirement funds due to buying property at the peak and over-stretching themselves with leverage. And if anyone is worried holding cash will erode their value through inflation, just buy gold. Go to UOB and buy their physical gold using your cash. That is the real hedge against inflation in these times when property prices are still high and if you are afraid of losing the value of cash. Definitely not buying over-price properties. The decline in property prices will certainly outpace inflation.

[teddybear]

No choice lah, I get drawn away after some idiots keep harping at me and sprouting non-sense that property price sure drop etc. I am just asking them to justify why they are SO SURE PROPERTY PRICE will SURE DROP and they start attacking me left, right, centre. They have hidden agenda?

HP65 and Teddybear, you both talk too much rubbish that does not belong in this thread at all........

Everybody entitled to their own opinion......

My personal one is that we have reached the bottom in general (though of course that does not mean for every individual condo, and of course, there will be some good deals and emergency sales still).....but at least if one is buying for own stay, does it really matter in the long run if price will drop 5% more or not.....

[HP65]

My reply to you previously:
"Are you BLIND? Did I not make myself very clear in this forum that "I didn't ask people to BUY or SELL"? Since I didn't, I don't understand what you are trying to drive at. Another idiotic LOSER here just like your good buddy cartman who like to presume and then make all sort of assumptions & guesses. "

Presumptions, Presumptions, Presumptions! Now we are seeing another "GOD"-like character like cartman! How do you know people will be commiting financial suicide if they buy now? May be people who buy now will be making lots of money 3-5 years down the road? (though I am not telling people to BUY now because I have no such capability to foresee future and it is best left to individual to decide). So, who know whether it is the right time to BUY or SELL now? If you say BUYING now is financial suicide and that the property is over-priced now and the property price will certainly decline vs infation (as you mentioned: "Definitely not buying over-price properties. The decline in property prices will certainly outpace inflation"), you are doing on the presumption that even 3-5 years down the road property price will not recover higher than now. NOW, who can confidently say such thing except "GOD"? So, this just exposed another LOSER and a liar if he can say all this with confidence!

Now worst still, you are advocating people to buy PHYSICAL GOLD? Is GOLD a real hedge against inflation? My Gosh! People who buy private property now can still live in and enjoy the facilities while waiting for it to appreciate. People who buy physical gold which does not earn interest and still have to incur handling charges etc may be they can eat some GOLD while waiting for the price to go up so that they can sell later? (because nobody knows whether GOLD will go up or go down in future!). You are advocating to consider buying GOLD meaning you are telling people GOLD will go up in FUTURE? I better let the others think about these and decide for themselves.

From your answer, its obvious you have no idea what is the objective of investment in gold. Price appreciation? LOL anyway, i wouldnt bother to educate you on this. I think you need to pay tuition fees to learn....or maybe you are already in the process of paying now, I dun really care.

I can see that whenever you have been exposed or lose an argument, you try to find other `issues' to divert attention from your folly. But its obvious you only know how to dish out `advice' based on your online research, quotes, and media reports (which includes bias report from property agency which naturally encourage people to buy property all the time).

Finally, you seem to like to use God's name in vain pure folly and i'm sure you will regret it someday.

[Regulators]

it is true that we never knw when pty prices will recover or continue to head south. In the past there were many who criticised those who queue up to buy icon, the sail, one shenton, sentosa cove n a whole string of other ptys, but these ppl r still laughng to the bank. Thus nobody is a real guru to predict the cycle 100%. Just look at number of so called analysts who gave the wrong calls on stocks n got many investors in deep shit. My advice trust own instincts 70% n rely 30% on sme research

[teddybear]

If any investment is not to look for price appreciation and hence profit, what for? Buy physical gold to eat or sleep in it? (At least with property I am very sure we can sleep in it). I don't need you to educate me on gold because I am simply not interested.

Find another issue? Who is the first to start telling people to buy physical gold in reply to my posting? Looks like you are the one diverting from the discussed issue and finding another issue and start dishing out advice to buy physical gold. Why you keep insisting I (quote from you): "dish out `advice' based on your online research, quotes, and media reports"? I quote but I never "advice". What people want to interpret the reports etc is up to them. You are the one dishing out all sort of "advice" here, e.g.: (1) Ask people not to buy property because they sure drop; (2) Ask people to buy physical gold! What is your basis for advicing people to buy gold? If you didn't read some article etc and believe in it's value, you think you are the originator of the idea that gold is a hedge against inflation?

Those who like to act like GOD and dishing out "GOD"-like prophecies and advices and keep insisting that they are right and all others are wrong (keep harassing those who believe otherwise) will know what they will receive in future.

From your answer, its obvious you have no idea what is the objective of investment in gold. Price appreciation? LOL anyway, i wouldnt bother to educate you on this. I think you need to pay tuition fees to learn....or maybe you are already in the process of paying now, I dun really care.

I can see that whenever you have been exposed or lose an argument, you try to find other `issues' to divert attention from your folly. But its obvious you only know how to dish out `advice' based on your online research, quotes, and media reports (which includes bias report from property agency which naturally encourage people to buy property all the time).

Finally, you seem to like to use God's name in vain pure folly and i'm sure you will regret it someday.

[HP65]

If any investment is not to look for price appreciation and hence profit, what for? Buy physical gold to eat or sleep in it? (At least with property I am very sure we can sleep in it). I don't need you to educate me on gold because I am simply not interested.

Find another issue? Who is the first to start telling people to buy physical gold in reply to my posting? Looks like you are the one diverting from the discussed issue and finding another issue and start dishing out advice to buy physical gold. Why you keep insisting I (quote from you): "dish out `advice' based on your online research, quotes, and media reports"? I quote but I never "advice". What people want to interpret the reports etc is up to them. You are the one dishing out all sort of "advice" here, e.g.: (1) Ask people not to buy property because they sure drop; (2) Ask people to buy physical gold! What is your basis for advicing people to buy gold? If you didn't read some article etc and believe in it's value, you think you are the originator of the idea that gold is a hedge against inflation?

Those who like to act like GOD and dishing out "GOD"-like prophecies and advices and keep insisting that they are right and all others are wrong (keep harassing those who believe otherwise) will know what they will receive in future.

Your behaviour reminds me greatly of my son when he was younger. Sad but true. Constantly trying to find excuses to defend his foolish and petulant acts. But that is not bad enough.

Worse still displaying a total lack of integrity in constantly advocating buying properties when you doesnt have the slightest understanding of investment. Walk into any bank and ask the PB to explain why do ple invest in Gold. Its free advice.

And until you understand why, then come back to the forum to discuss property. Otherwise, you are just like many `retail investors' who often buy by following herd instinct and usually end up buying high and needing to sell it when low.

[kalumder]

No choice lah, I get drawn away after some idiots keep harping at me and sprouting non-sense that property price sure drop etc. I am just asking them to justify why they are SO SURE PROPERTY PRICE will SURE DROP and they start attacking me left, right, centre. They have hidden agenda?

The prices are sure to drop the next 12 months because, of macro-economic conditions. "The global economy is set to decline by 1.3% in 2009, in the first global recession since World War II, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) says."
Read this:
bbc article

Singapore cannot escape macro-economic realities. Real GDP is expected to decline by -10% in 2009. (page 82, IMF report)

So lets recap.
- 10% Real GDP decrease
- More lay-offs of high income jobs by multinationals
- higher unemployement
- Thousands of units on market currently fighting for rental!
- Thousands of units coming to market in next 2 years
- DPS financed units, yet to TOP.
- As an investment current property prices are too high, because the "real" ROI is only around 2%. Way too low, for any value investor!
- Property (condo) in Singapore since 2004 on bull run, outrunning GDP growth, which means people have overpaid.
- before property recovers, economy recovers. Well wait the next 6 months until you hear the horror stories (banking may be through theirs, but other industries are yet to follow)

- lets wait a year or two for interest rate to reach normal levels 3-4%. Than we will see how people will handle their morgage payments.

So tell me why should property not come down? On average property is still too expensive. There might be a few exceptions to the rule. How ever there is a serious oversupply of condo´s in Singapore. Nothing will change that for the next 2 years.

[HP65]

If any investment is not to look for price appreciation and hence profit, what for? Buy physical gold to eat or sleep in it? (At least with property I am very sure we can sleep in it). I don't need you to educate me on gold because I am simply not interested.

Find another issue? Who is the first to start telling people to buy physical gold in reply to my posting? Looks like you are the one diverting from the discussed issue and finding another issue and start dishing out advice to buy physical gold. Why you keep insisting I (quote from you): "dish out `advice' based on your online research, quotes, and media reports"? I quote but I never "advice". What people want to interpret the reports etc is up to them. You are the one dishing out all sort of "advice" here, e.g.: (1) Ask people not to buy property because they sure drop; (2) Ask people to buy physical gold! What is your basis for advicing people to buy gold? If you didn't read some article etc and believe in it's value, you think you are the originator of the idea that gold is a hedge against inflation?

Those who like to act like GOD and dishing out "GOD"-like prophecies and advices and keep insisting that they are right and all others are wrong (keep harassing those who believe otherwise) will know what they will receive in future.

Incidentally, did you read that China has increased their gold reserves by 3/4 since 2003? If not, do yourself a favour, spend $1 (i'm sure you have that) and get a copy of Business Times.

[teddybear]

So what? Just because China is buying gold so you ask people to follow & buy? You don't know how to dissect & digest the information is it? Despite of increasing the gold reserves by 3/4 since 2003, you don't know that their total value in gold is just a pantry 1.6% of their total foreign reserves? China is still buying & holding don't know how many times more money in US$ and US Treasury bills (compared to gold). As such, based on your analogy, shouldn't people have more reason to buy US$ and US Treasury bills (to get themselves into same proportion as China's investment)? Talk as though you are so old and hence portraying yourselves to be so super knowledgeable and experience and YET these information that I mentioned you also don't know? (OR you trying to mislead to convince people to 'invest' in gold?)

Incidentally, did you read that China has increased their gold reserves by 3/4 since 2003? If not, do yourself a favour, spend $1 (i'm sure you have that) and get a copy of Business Times.

[teddybear]

I have no comments on your son. None of my concern anyway. Not sure why he has a father like you though.

Secondly, please don't put words into my mouth because I have repeated don't know how many times that "I didn't ask people to Buy property now (nor ask them NOT to buy)". You are the one asking people not to buy and giving all sort of reasons which obviously also comes from news and research reports. Don't know why you consider yourselves to have such 'good integrity' in insisting that I asked people to buy property now (contrary to facts)?

If I am going to believe in the private bankers, I must have a wire 'short' in the head! These people tried to persuade me to buy structured deposits previously and got scrutinized by me upside down. Obviously, I didn't buy and the rest is history (so many people lost so much money on these). Now they (& you) are trying to pester GOLD? Free advice? Forget it man! These 'free advice' is going to cost many more people a lot of their money. Many of the retail investors are going to do better without these private bankers' 'free advice'!

Your behaviour reminds me greatly of my son when he was younger. Sad but true. Constantly trying to find excuses to defend his foolish and petulant acts. But that is not bad enough.

Worse still displaying a total lack of integrity in constantly advocating buying properties when you doesnt have the slightest understanding of investment. Walk into any bank and ask the PB to explain why do ple invest in Gold. Its free advice.

And until you understand why, then come back to the forum to discuss property. Otherwise, you are just like many `retail investors' who often buy by following herd instinct and usually end up buying high and needing to sell it when low.

[teddybear]

What you have mentioned are known news and they are lagging information. They are useless to investors. What matter to all investors & the Most important thing is the future: If they buy now, will they make/loss money in 5 years time and by how much? Can you tell us how much the price will drop in next 12 months? Can you tell us how much the property will go up/down in 5 years time? I bet nobody will know these answers (unless he is GOD). May be you can be more constructive by presenting a more balanced views by disserting and digesting the information rather than just regurgitating the bad news on property which is just telling us what we already knew?

The prices are sure to drop the next 12 months because, of macro-economic conditions. "The global economy is set to decline by 1.3% in 2009, in the first global recession since World War II, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) says."
Read this:
bbc article

Singapore cannot escape macro-economic realities. Real GDP is expected to decline by -10% in 2009. (page 82, IMF report)

So lets recap.
- 10% Real GDP decrease
- More lay-offs of high income jobs by multinationals
- higher unemployement
- Thousands of units on market currently fighting for rental!
- Thousands of units coming to market in next 2 years
- DPS financed units, yet to TOP.
- As an investment current property prices are too high, because the "real" ROI is only around 2%. Way too low, for any value investor!
- Property (condo) in Singapore since 2004 on bull run, outrunning GDP growth, which means people have overpaid.
- before property recovers, economy recovers. Well wait the next 6 months until you hear the horror stories (banking may be through theirs, but other industries are yet to follow)

- lets wait a year or two for interest rate to reach normal levels 3-4%. Than we will see how people will handle their morgage payments.

So tell me why should property not come down? On average property is still too expensive. There might be a few exceptions to the rule. How ever there is a serious oversupply of condo´s in Singapore. Nothing will change that for the next 2 years.

[HP65]

I have no comments on your son. None of my concern anyway. Not sure why he has a father like you though.

Secondly, please don't put words into my mouth because I have repeated don't know how many times that "I didn't ask people to Buy property now (nor ask them NOT to buy)". You are the one asking people not to buy and giving all sort of reasons which obviously also comes from news and research reports. Don't know why you consider yourselves to have such 'good integrity' in insisting that I asked people to buy property now (contrary to facts)?

If I am going to believe in the private bankers, I must have a wire 'short' in the head! These people tried to persuade me to buy structured deposits previously and got scrutinized by me upside down. Obviously, I didn't buy and the rest is history (so many people lost so much money on these). Now they (& you) are trying to pester GOLD? Free advice? Forget it man! These 'free advice' is going to cost many more people a lot of their money. Many of the retail investors are going to do better without these private bankers' 'free advice'!

Unless you ask admin to delete all your 100-over posts, readers can easily track all your posts and infer if you are advocating buying properties now or not. So I do not need to put words in your mouth. Your posts and arguments reveal your intentions all the time. I hope you are not blinded even by your own intentions and thus couldnt see your own intentions.

Anyway, no amt of your posting is going to prevent the sliding of property prices. That, a lot of us are absolutely sure. No need super-natural power. Just common sense.

[kalumder]

What you have mentioned are known news and they are lagging information. They are useless to investors. What matter to all investors & the Most important thing is the future: If they buy now, will they make/loss money in 5 years time and by how much? Can you tell us how much the price will drop in next 12 months? Can you tell us how much the property will go up/down in 5 years time? I bet nobody will know these answers (unless he is GOD). May be you can be more constructive by presenting a more balanced views by disserting and digesting the information rather than just regurgitating the bad news on property which is just telling us what we already knew?

See that is the problem, someone who bets on the future is a speculator. Some one who deals with today the present is an investor (value investor). If I buy property than I expect atleast annual of 4% return on my investment after
all costs. Capital appreciation not included. Anything below that and property is not interesting, a waste of money.
Show me the properties in Singapore that I can buy at 2 million, and rent out instantly at 8000$ to get my net 4% per annum.

Units which rent out for 8000$ today are asking around 2.8million. That means you get 3.4% ROI, however you have not decucted agent fees, condo fees, taxes, depreciation of the actual unit due to age etc.. So your real return is between 2-2.5%. (this is witout morgage! and considering inflation)

Honestly that sucks. You might as well go for REIT, or even bonds, atleast you can liquidate at any time. If you are hoping for double digit gains in property that means you are hoping for another bubble.

That is why property is overpriced, and has atleast 20-30% to drop, provided rentals dont keep going down, otherwise you can expect an even greater drop in prices.

[HP65]

What you have mentioned are known news and they are lagging information. They are useless to investors. What matter to all investors & the Most important thing is the future: If they buy now, will they make/loss money in 5 years time and by how much? Can you tell us how much the price will drop in next 12 months? Can you tell us how much the property will go up/down in 5 years time? I bet nobody will know these answers (unless he is GOD). May be you can be more constructive by presenting a more balanced views by disserting and digesting the information rather than just regurgitating the bad news on property which is just telling us what we already knew?

Initially i thought you only lack financial knowledge. Now I realised you also lack economic knowledge and basic english comprehension.

Those were not lagging information but future economic forecast. Certainly useful information to investors but probably useless to someone who do not knowhow to interpret such data and thought it useless.

[ahlipp]

Haven't been here for a while, things still look very much the same...

i seek second opinions on the following...

Condos near the Somerset MRT

1. recent sell out project Illuminair - Devonshire @ around $1700 - $1800psf, fair value for that area? Looking at Suites at Central maybe around $1500psf asking now, fair value?

2. One Oxley rise - asking maybe around $1400 - $1700psf, fair value now or expected to go lower by end of year, what's your take?

3. Visioncrest (Douby Ghuat MRT) - $1500-$1700psf... fair value?

There are small 1 bedroom units in these developments above, price range is around the 1 million region, my take is that properties in the 1 mil region (in such prime location) will not go too far down in terms of psf coz of the relatively smaller quantum so are able to hold at a resonably high psf...say around $1300-$1400psf at worst in this crisis... agree?

Please share your thoughts...thanks

[cartman]

The prices are sure to drop the next 12 months because, of macro-economic conditions. "The global economy is set to decline by 1.3% in 2009, in the first global recession since World War II, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) says."
Read this:
bbc article

Singapore cannot escape macro-economic realities. Real GDP is expected to decline by -10% in 2009. (page 82, IMF report)

So lets recap.
- 10% Real GDP decrease
- More lay-offs of high income jobs by multinationals
- higher unemployement
- Thousands of units on market currently fighting for rental!
- Thousands of units coming to market in next 2 years
- DPS financed units, yet to TOP.
- As an investment current property prices are too high, because the "real" ROI is only around 2%. Way too low, for any value investor!
- Property (condo) in Singapore since 2004 on bull run, outrunning GDP growth, which means people have overpaid.
- before property recovers, economy recovers. Well wait the next 6 months until you hear the horror stories (banking may be through theirs, but other industries are yet to follow)

- lets wait a year or two for interest rate to reach normal levels 3-4%. Than we will see how people will handle their morgage payments.

So tell me why should property not come down? On average property is still too expensive. There might be a few exceptions to the rule. How ever there is a serious oversupply of condo´s in Singapore. Nothing will change that for the next 2 years.

thanks for sharing. its true no one can predict the future but its also silly to try to catch a falling knife like what teddybear is advocating. asking those with only 8K/mth combined household income to buy million dollar properties.

even if prices do not plunge, it won't shoot up for sure. against this backdrop of the world economy, he's still trying to convince folks to buy property at high prices the funny thing is he's going round calling all those analysts and economists who do not subscribe to his buy buy buy calls as gods

[cartman]

Haven't been here for a while, things still look very much the same...

i seek second opinions on the following...

Condos near the Somerset MRT

1. recent sell out project Illuminair - Devonshire @ around $1700 - $1800psf, fair value for that area? Looking at Suites at Central maybe around $1500psf asking now, fair value?

2. One Oxley rise - asking maybe around $1400 - $1700psf, fair value now or expected to go lower by end of year, what's your take?

3. Visioncrest (Douby Ghuat MRT) - $1500-$1700psf... fair value?

There are small 1 bedroom units in these developments above, price range is around the 1 million region, my take is that properties in the 1 mil region (in such prime location) will not go too far down in terms of psf coz of the relatively smaller quantum so are able to hold at a resonably high psf...say around $1300-$1400psf at worst in this crisis... agree?

Please share your thoughts...thanks

just fyi...recently top suites@central around $1450-$1500 for some units but their units are bigger.

[cartman]

OK, rich man, I am just "too poor to walk into the BMW showroom" (if this makes you happier).

Anyway, I really don't understand why anybody would want to buy an "Ah Beng" car such as BMW which is not value-for-money at such "carrothead" price (even after knowing the so-called "real-price" which is cheaper than the standard pricelist) unless he is so "Ah Beng"! Ha ha!

Oh, by the way, $131k already so cheap for branded cars and you are telling me that it is just the standard pricelist? Wah, the cheaper "real-price" must be really cheap! After knowing this, this really confirm many people's impression that the BMW 320i although branded as luxury car but is really an "Ah Beng" car and it is for those who want to show that "I don't have too much money but I still want to show off and this is the limit I can show off". Ha ha! Funny clown! Really makes people laugh! We are really entertained here!

this is hilarious now that you have been caughtfor posting as if you really knew the price of the bmw 320, you resorted to name calling and has absolutely no shame at all

performance motors list prices have always been that way. goes to show that you have been talking from your place where the sun don't shine you have no idea at all how much cheaper all cars have become over the years.

oh well, another record of another lie of teddybear being exposed.