Illuminaire (D9, Freehold, EL Development)

[ahlipp]

just fyi...recently top suites@central around $1450-$1500 for some units but their units are bigger.

well, from the internet even at $1400psf for a 818 sqft unit.

Suites @ central has good facilities with nice layout, very compfortable and well thought designs. i think it has the best value in Devonshire area.

However, the picture perfect views from the 1 bedders (currently orchard view) will be partially blocked by Illuminaire. Still the Suites longer term value will be there.

Ever since the Illuminaire launch...no more $1400psf... rental there i tink also tough coz of upcoming constructions

[dtrax]

well, from the internet even at $1400psf for a 818 sqft unit.

Suites @ central has good facilities with nice layout, very compfortable and well thought designs. i think it has the best value in Devonshire area.

However, the picture perfect views from the 1 bedders (currently orchard view) will be partially blocked by Illuminaire. Still the Suites longer term value will be there.

Ever since the Illuminaire launch...no more $1400psf... rental there i tink also tough coz of upcoming constructions

Which posting u saw for 818sg @ 1.4k psf? I saw the 1k sq ft 2rms and to be frank was quite disappointed.. the 2nd rm seems too small and the private lobby is freaking large plus with planter there somemore wtf...

[trump7]

What you have mentioned are known news and they are lagging information. They are useless to investors. What matter to all investors & the Most important thing is the future: If they buy now, will they make/loss money in 5 years time and by how much? Can you tell us how much the price will drop in next 12 months? Can you tell us how much the property will go up/down in 5 years time? I bet nobody will know these answers (unless he is GOD). May be you can be more constructive by presenting a more balanced views by disserting and digesting the information rather than just regurgitating the bad news on property which is just telling us what we already knew?

I have same oppinion with you. Current price always reflect with all known news and factors already.
Recently many new developments have had good results with their sales so far, I also doubt why people keep insisting on price will go down.
It is also likely that giving uncertain info to people in this forum and misleading them to miss the chance to grab the house in good timing.

Must remember that more people insisting their thought without rational data and criticizing and doing personal attack, the more closer to THE TIME WHICH PROPERTY PRICE REVERT TO BACK.
The history tells this.

[ahlipp]

Which posting u saw for 818sg @ 1.4k psf? I saw the 1k sq ft 2rms and to be frank was quite disappointed.. the 2nd rm seems too small and the private lobby is freaking large plus with planter there somemore wtf...

well, frankly these days... it seems like a default ...those big planters in new developments, i guess its part of building regulation now... though yes agree, why such a big planter. However, the planter can also be converted into a balcony of sorts, for rental, tht's a plus...

$1.4kpsf was fr URA website. So what kind of asking are we looking at now for tht project...

[cartman]

I have same oppinion with you. Current price always reflect with all known news and factors already.
Recently many new developments have had good results with their sales so far, I also doubt why people keep insisting on price will go down.
It is also likely that giving uncertain info to people in this forum and misleading them to miss the chance to grab the house in good timing.

Must remember that more people insisting their thought without rational data and criticizing and doing personal attack, the more closer to THE TIME WHICH PROPERTY PRICE REVERT TO BACK.
The history tells this.

hmm, welcome new member. just to make it clear, i am sure you are aware of this. NONE of what anyone of us here say or do will influence the property price. there i said, unless you are the son or CEO of one of the developers and are influenced by the posts here

we are just exchanging and sharing opinions. however, there is always such a thing as common sense and some insiders know a lot more than us. if the economies can be easily talked up, all the world leaders would have done that.

[爱屋及乌]

Neither the son or the ceo of a big developer can determine the price....

Price is determined by market or invisible hand

hmm, welcome new member. just to make it clear, i am sure you are aware of this. NONE of what anyone of us here say or do will influence the property price. there i said, unless you are the son or CEO of one of the developers and are influenced by the posts here

we are just exchanging and sharing opinions. however, there is always such a thing as common sense and some insiders know a lot more than us. if the economies can be easily talked up, all the world leaders would have done that.

[teddybear]

Since you claimed that I had 100-over postings telling people to buy property now, it shouldn't be a problem for your to quote a few of these postings that I explicitly ask people to buy property now right? Show the proof! Don't make such unsubstantiated comments! If you can't proof it, this just show you are a LIAR and you are the ones putting words into my mouth.

Are you sure of your statement: "Anyway, no amt of your posting is going to prevent the sliding of property prices. That, a lot of us are absolutely sure."?
I think quite a number of people who can afford to buy property now do not seem to be sharing your view. If a lot of people are so sure property sure drop, then they won't be buying properties for the past few months up to now! Luckily many people have a brain of their own and not so stupid to listen to all those doom-sayers (who are believed to be hoping to buy property cheap cheap and hence they want to scared all buyers away and hoping that property price will crash)! People bought Illumaire at about S$1800-2000 psf (and all units already sold out)! People bought Alexis at about $1300 psf (all sold out again). People are buying RV Suites at about $1300 psf! People are buying The Arte at about $900 psf! In buying now, these people must have believed that they will be able to make very good profits within 5 years. They have Li Ka Shing and Warren Buffett at their side as both gurus openly stated that it is time to start investing! Both men are gurus and they always stick with their investment calls (and putting their money where their mouth are)! Who are you and those so-called forecasters who keep changing their forecasts all the time (without betting a single penny of their money)? Ha ha! Who people should follow is obvious!

Unless you ask admin to delete all your 100-over posts, readers can easily track all your posts and infer if you are advocating buying properties now or not. So I do not need to put words in your mouth. Your posts and arguments reveal your intentions all the time. I hope you are not blinded even by your own intentions and thus couldnt see your own intentions.

Anyway, no amt of your posting is going to prevent the sliding of property prices. That, a lot of us are absolutely sure. No need super-natural power. Just common sense.

[teddybear]

Seems like what you mentioned should apply to yourselves instead. So what if these are future economic forecasts? Who make these forecasts? Why they keep changing their forecasts every quarter? Can they be trusted? I have also seen many other forecasts where the analysts / fund managers / insiders are bullish on properties and they said if buy properties now and can hold, most likely can make very good profits within next few years! So who to believe?

Initially i thought you only lack financial knowledge. Now I realised you also lack economic knowledge and basic english comprehension.

Those were not lagging information but future economic forecast. Certainly useful information to investors but probably useless to someone who do not knowhow to interpret such data and thought it useless.

[teddybear]

Don't try to beat around the bush and diverge from the issues debated after you have been exposed to be faked poser as though you can predict the future price of property! We don't need to predict the price of a BMW320 - sure go down because it is becoming more and more of an Ah Beng's car! Must keep it cheap while branding it as luxury so that those Ah Beng who has only so much money but still want to be seen driving a 'luxury' car can show that they only have so much to show off.

this is hilarious now that you have been caughtfor posting as if you really knew the price of the bmw 320, you resorted to name calling and has absolutely no shame at all

performance motors list prices have always been that way. goes to show that you have been talking from your place where the sun don't shine you have no idea at all how much cheaper all cars have become over the years.

oh well, another record of another lie of teddybear being exposed.

[cartman]

Neither the son or the ceo of a big developer can determine the price....

Price is determined by market or invisible hand

they can determine the price of their own developments

anyway, yeah, its always market forces at work but always those with inside information is always one or several steps ahead of us.

[cartman]

Don't try to beat around the bush and diverge from the issues debated after you have been exposed to be faked poser as though you can predict the future price of property! We don't need to predict the price of a BMW320 - sure go down because it is becoming more and more of an Ah Beng's car! Must keep it cheap while branding it as luxury so that those Ah Beng who has only so much money but still want to be seen driving a 'luxury' car can show that they only have so much to show off.

lol, more lies from teddybear. from his confident posting of the WRONG current price of bmw320, he has twisted it to become predicting the price of bmw320

since this teddybear had been urging folks to buy because prices are so cheap that many tom dick and harry can easily afford million dollar homes, all the data published by the authorities had shown major price drops

still sore about being proven a liar in the bmw saga? lol, i may get another one when the new batch is here in june ....and yeah, still paying cash

[teddybear]

See that is the problem, someone who bets on the future is a speculator. Some one who deals with today the present is an investor (value investor). If I buy property than I expect atleast annual of 4% return on my investment after
all costs. Capital appreciation not included. Anything below that and property is not interesting, a waste of money.

Seems like you have never really invested before. So naive. People buy shares when cheap and sell when expensive. Same for properties. You think property's yield can remain high for long if the price is cheap?

Show me the properties in Singapore that I can buy at 2 million, and rent out instantly at 8000$ to get my net 4% per annum.

This is for you to go and find out. There are indeed bargains out there. Early birds get the worms (Ops)! The toad living in the well croacking that his world is only as big as the well will never get the delicious flies outside of the well.

Units which rent out for 8000$ today are asking around 2.8million. That means you get 3.4% ROI, however you have not decucted agent fees, condo fees, taxes, depreciation of the actual unit due to age etc.. So your real return is between 2-2.5%. (this is witout morgage! and considering inflation)

Honestly that sucks. You might as well go for REIT, or even bonds, atleast you can liquidate at any time. If you are hoping for double digit gains in property that means you are hoping for another bubble.

Yap, since property is not for you and you don't know how to find bargain out there, you should buy what you think is worth it, such as REIT and bonds as you mentioned.

That is why property is overpriced, and has atleast 20-30% to drop, provided rentals dont keep going down, otherwise you can expect an even greater drop in prices.

You are trying to act like GOD as though you know the future price of property will sure drop and hence it is overpriced now? Why you so sure? Talk is free. At least one of our forumer here has the balls to put his dick on the chop if price didn't falls below $800 psf for Cosmopolitan. You don't even have the balls (or may be you have none)?

[cartman]

Seems like what you mentioned should apply to yourselves instead. So what if these are future economic forecasts? Who make these forecasts? Why they keep changing their forecasts every quarter? Can they be trusted? I have also seen many other forecasts where the analysts / fund managers / insiders are bullish on properties and they said if buy properties now and can hold, most likely can make very good profits within next few years! So who to believe?

even if any of their forecasts is shit, no one can be worst than yours also cannot differentiate if any info he saw was influenced by others' hidden agenda.

claiming to be much better than everyone else. what a moron

[cartman]

more rubbish from teddybear

you really must be shitting in your pants now knowing property prices will drop well, being abusive and acting or really being retarded will not be of help to you

[teddybear]

Really Ah Beng! Showing off that he can only buy another BMW? Many of those really rich are keeping quiet! This really shows the "Ah Beng" colour Ha ha! Need I say more?

All the URA data show price drop? Those are lagging information lah! Many of the really rich still buying properties! They are not afraid that the price will drop further. They will buy more properties. Not like you, keep complaining properties so expensive and asking people not to buy so that you can buy cheap cheap? Fat hope! By the way, latest analyst's report (see below) already showing that property market is firming up. Those in the loop will always get first hand information while those ignorant only looks at the URA data.

You don't even have the money to buy 1 property first and then buy another just like you mentioned you buying your BMW? (or that is a Poser too? )

SINGAPORE
Property – Residential
OVERWEIGHT
UOB KayHian - Monday, April 27, 2009

Property – Residential

Sales volume picks up
The first-quarter sales volume is the best quarterly showing since 3Q08.
Continued sales momentum would help in base formation and improvement
in the homebuying sentiment, leading to a more sustainable recovery.
Sector Events

Urban Redevelopment Authority’s (URA) quarterly statistics for 1Q09 indicate
that private residential prices declined 14.1% qoq to 139.9 points, steeper
than the flash estimate of a 13.8% decrease released earlier. Private home
prices are 22.9% below the 2Q96 peak levels. The Housing and
Development Board’s (HDB) price index declined 0.8% qoq (flash estimate:
0.6% qoq) after nine quarters of growth to 138.6 points. Public housing
prices are still 1% above the 4Q96 peak levels. As highlighted earlier, the
price index is catching up with the actual price decline levels as the price
index has a laggard effect due to the normalisation procedure used. We
estimate the actual price decline is a lot steeper at 30-40% from the end-07
levels compared with the reported full-year decline of 21.2% from the peak.

Sector Impact
? Buyers back in the market. Sales volumes in the primary market leapt
nearly sixfold to 2,596 units mostly due to sales in the mass market and
mid-tier segments and represent nearly 60% of the full-year developer
sales recorded last year. Transactions in the secondary market also
noted a 10.7% qoq increase. The data points suggest base formation for
developer sales in the mass market and mid-tier segments at the early-06
resale price levels. Continued sales momentum would support base
formation and help in improving homebuying sentiment, leading to a more
sustainable recovery.

? Further deferment of supply should support market. Supply in the
pipeline saw further deferments during the quarter, with a reduction in the
total number of units in the pipeline. While the total number of home
completions expected in 2009 has increased 6.2%, taking the 2,230
completed units in the first quarter into account, the number of units due
for completion in 2010 has been cut by 15% to 5,952 units. Expected
completions for 2010-13 have all been adjusted downwards, deferred to
beyond 2013.

? Supply shortage of public housing and increased public rental
housing demand supportive of private mass market. Public housing
prices have been stable compared with other segments, supported by
stable rental levels. While further moderation in the public housing rental
levels is expected due to the deterioration in the macroeconomic outlook,
we believe public housing rental levels will remain fairly stable compared
with other housing segments because of the increase in demand for
affordable rental housing as more people defer their buying decisions. At
the same time, the supply situation in the HDB segment remains tight
with the supply of a mere 5,400 units p.a. in the last five years, well below
the 15-year long-term average of 19,000 units p.a. The stable public
housing market will eventually lend support to the private mass market
segment.

Valuation/Recommendation
Based on URA’s latest quarterly statistics, the physical market is moving
towards price points that are drawing buyers back, in our view. The
moderation of projects in the pipeline should serve to support the market
further. As such, we continue to see value in the property sector with City
Developments and Allgreen being the key beneficiaries of the increased sales
momentum and the improved homebuying sentiment in the mass market and
mid-tier segments.

lol, more lies from teddybear. from his confident posting of the WRONG current price of bmw320, he has twisted it to become predicting the price of bmw320

since this teddybear had been urging folks to buy because prices are so cheap that many tom dick and harry can easily afford million dollar homes, all the data published by the authorities had shown major price drops

still sore about being proven a liar in the bmw saga? lol, i may get another one when the new batch is here in june ....and yeah, still paying cash

[teddybear]

Ah Beng got offended after being on the offensive? Ha ha ha! Moron Moron Moron?

even if any of their forecasts is shit, no one can be worst than yours also cannot differentiate if any info he saw was influenced by others' hidden agenda.

claiming to be much better than everyone else. what a moron

[teddybear]

La la la poo poo, you cannot buy property cheap cheap!
Don't have money don't go around showing off. You can buy 'BMW' but too bad cannot buy property. Go buy more BMWs lah! Don't keep cow pay cow bull about property prices being too expensive. You cannot afford cow pay cow bull for what?

you really must be shitting in your pants now knowing property prices will drop well, being abusive and acting or really being retarded will not be of help to you

[kalumder]

Teddybear, when you learn how to calculate ROI, we will maybe talk again. Until than I wish you good fortune, with your life and investments. May you take up as many morgages as you can, sweep up those "good bargains" that only you can see, and become the property king of Singapore.

Have a nice day.

[cartman]

more rubbish and lies from teddybear
[/I]

lol, the info about bmw is just to make you drool. even the ah beng car as you called it is still way above you why should i buy 2 properties now since i know it will drop further. i am unlike you and have a home to stay in while i wait also unlike you in that you kept asking others to buy since last month and yet you have not bought any as for money for property investment, go read my posts and find out how much cash i have prepared in case you are worried, the amount is still the same after paying cash for cars

is that report what you refer to as your saviour for price increases? if that is what you are banking on, good luck to you

[teddybear]

You can't reply faster? You can't type is it? Ah Beng brain and hand too slow is it? YAWN! Can't wait already. Sooooo LONGggggg. Going to sleep now.

La la la poo poo, you cannot buy property cheap cheap!
Don't have money don't go around showing off. You can buy 'BMW' but too bad cannot buy property. Go buy more BMWs lah! Don't keep cow pay cow bull about property prices being too expensive. You cannot afford cow pay cow bull for what?

Originally Posted by cartman
you really must be shitting in your pants now knowing property prices will drop well, being abusive and acting or really being retarded will not be of help to you

[cartman]

You can't reply faster? You can't type is it? Ah Beng brain and hand too slow is it? YAWN! Can't wait already. Sooooo LONGggggg. Going to sleep now.

okay, just want to wish you well.

when the bust comes, hope we don't see your picture in the back pages of the papers

[HP65]

Hey Teddybear,

See what I said back in Apr, invest in Gold. I wonder how many people who bought a property back in Apr/ May is able to flip it at a profit matching the gains in Gold px without leverage In fact, for the period from Apr till now, all my investments like equities, AUD and Gold all appreciated many times more than my 3 properties.

My reply to you previously:
"Are you BLIND? Did I not make myself very clear in this forum that "I didn't ask people to BUY or SELL"? Since I didn't, I don't understand what you are trying to drive at. Another idiotic LOSER here just like your good buddy cartman who like to presume and then make all sort of assumptions & guesses. "

Presumptions, Presumptions, Presumptions! Now we are seeing another "GOD"-like character like cartman! How do you know people will be commiting financial suicide if they buy now? May be people who buy now will be making lots of money 3-5 years down the road? (though I am not telling people to BUY now because I have no such capability to foresee future and it is best left to individual to decide). So, who know whether it is the right time to BUY or SELL now? If you say BUYING now is financial suicide and that the property is over-priced now and the property price will certainly decline vs infation (as you mentioned: "Definitely not buying over-price properties. The decline in property prices will certainly outpace inflation"), you are doing on the presumption that even 3-5 years down the road property price will not recover higher than now. NOW, who can confidently say such thing except "GOD"? So, this just exposed another LOSER and a liar if he can say all this with confidence!

Now worst still, you are advocating people to buy PHYSICAL GOLD? Is GOLD a real hedge against inflation? My Gosh! People who buy private property now can still live in and enjoy the facilities while waiting for it to appreciate. People who buy physical gold which does not earn interest and still have to incur handling charges etc may be they can eat some GOLD while waiting for the price to go up so that they can sell later? (because nobody knows whether GOLD will go up or go down in future!). You are advocating to consider buying GOLD meaning you are telling people GOLD will go up in FUTURE? I better let the others think about these and decide for themselves.

[proud owner]

Hey Teddybear,

See what I said back in Apr, invest in Gold. I wonder how many people who bought a property back in Apr/ May is able to flip it at a profit matching the gains in Gold px without leverage In fact, for the period from Apr till now, all my investments like equities, AUD and Gold all appreciated many times more than my 3 properties.

i bought gold in early 2000 at 240 us/oz
i also encouraged at least 5 of my close friends to buy ..usd CPF to buy ..
only 1 followed ..

[jlrx]

i bought gold in early 2000 at 240 us/oz
i also encouraged at least 5 of my close friends to buy ..usd CPF to buy ..
only 1 followed ..

How do you hold your gold? Is it physical gold, gold certificate or gold account?

[Reporter]

Private Residential Units Sold in the Month of April 2009

Project Name ................. Locality . Units Sold To Date . Units Sold In Month . Highest $psf . Median $psf . Lowest $psf
Illuminaire On Devonshire . CCR ........ 72 ............................ 72 .............................. 1,724 ............. 1,703 ............ 1,622

April seems so long ago.

[proud owner]

How do you hold your gold? Is it physical gold, gold certificate or gold account?

open a gold account .. like a passbook ... no need to take physical delivery .. safer ... unless you ask them to mould it like a toberone chocolate and hide in fridge eheh

[jlrx]

open a gold account .. like a passbook ... no need to take physical delivery .. safer ... unless you ask them to mould it like a toberone chocolate and hide in fridge eheh

Is it UOB?

They charge 0.25% per annum.

In 100 years, 25% of the gold will be gone!

[teddybear]

How much is the return of gold from Apr till now? Instead of saying how many people flipping property can match gains in gold price without leverage, why not compare "with leverage"? Ha ha! Simple. How you leverage at low borrowing rate and large sum of $$$ with gold? No way!

Let me quote just an example of exemplary returns with property (many other examples of exemplary returns out there):
If a person bought Ardmore II 2024 sf unit in Apr at $1600 psf (real transaction) by justing putting down 20% and borrow the rest at 1.9% interest pa, he could have sold it at $2650 psf recently (real transaction as well). As such, his profit is $2.125m from just putting down about $648k ! His return is 328.1% with respect to $648k ! Tell me, has gold gone up by >328.1% from Apr till now? We have not even considered the rental income yet (but I will just write that off with equivalent interest charges although rental yield is higher than interest charges). Also, I am definitely sure that gold will go back to square one again in next 10 years (i.e. fall back to below US$500 an ounce). Gold is just good for speculations, not long-term investment. Could you receive rental income or live in it for gold (just like property)? Rather, invest in gold and you get hit with all sort of administrative and management charges annually! Lower returns again! Long-term, it is a depreciating assets because of all these charges.

Hey Teddybear,

See what I said back in Apr, invest in Gold. I wonder how many people who bought a property back in Apr/ May is able to flip it at a profit matching the gains in Gold px without leverage In fact, for the period from Apr till now, all my investments like equities, AUD and Gold all appreciated many times more than my 3 properties.

[proud owner]

How much is the return of gold from Apr till now? Instead of saying how many people flipping property can match gains in gold price without leverage, why not compare "with leverage"? Ha ha! Simple. How you leverage at low borrowing rate and large sum of $$$ with gold? No way!

Let me quote just an example of exemplary returns with property (many other examples of exemplary returns out there):
If a person bought Ardmore II 2024 sf unit in Apr at $1600 psf (real transaction) by justing putting down 20% and borrow the rest at 1.9% interest pa, he could have sold it at $2650 psf recently (real transaction as well). As such, his profit is $2.125m from just putting down about $648k ! His return is 328.1% with respect to $648k ! Tell me, has gold gone up by >328.1% from Apr till now? We have not even considered the rental income yet (but I will just write that off with equivalent interest charges although rental yield is higher than interest charges). Also, I am definitely sure that gold will go back to square one again in next 10 years (i.e. fall back to below US$500 an ounce). Gold is just good for speculations, not long-term investment. Could you receive rental income or live in it for gold (just like property)? Rather, invest in gold and you get hit with all sort of administrative and management charges annually! Lower returns again! Long-term, it is a depreciating assets because of all these charges.

sounds good
but honestly ..that is not typical ...
i saw the caveat too at 2650 psf but at the same time theres another unit for sale lower at 2400 ish psf ..

meanwhile from apr to now .. how much are you serivicng the loan ? ARD II not TOP yet .. no rental income also

and its not liq like gold ..
if wrong can always sell back

if ARD II is wrong sell to who ?

to begin with ..why you think that guy sold at 1600 psf in apr in the first place ?

[teddybear]

That guy no holding power mah. Buy property first make sure can tong and strike when such good deal occurs.
Interest at 1.9% is damn low already. Furthermore if not TOP means loan not fully drawn down so interest charges even lower.

sounds good
but honestly ..that is not typical ...
i saw the caveat too at 2650 psf but at the same time theres another unit for sale lower at 2400 ish psf ..

meanwhile from apr to now .. how much are you serivicng the loan ? ARD II not TOP yet .. no rental income also

and its not liq like gold ..
if wrong can always sell back

if ARD II is wrong sell to who ?

to begin with ..why you think that guy sold at 1600 psf in apr in the first place ?