The Sea View (D15, Freehold, Wheelock Properties)

[devilplate]

everyone lies but if i have a car which has been in an accident before I will tell that to the dealer - peace of mind. For me anyways

If the accident was reported, u dun disclose they also noe la

[mantrix]

If the accident was reported, u dun disclose they also noe la

if not reported leh? My point is unless the damage is minor, i feel it's my duty to let the dealer (or buyer) know - cos last thing i want is for that fault to needlessly endanger his life....i will be responsible indirectly if anything happens mah

[Laguna]

Let hv a case study

I sold an unit in The Seaview, say Jan 2011, and this unit has been tenanted since TOP and I hv no knowledge as the tenant did not inform me anything, and I know nothing of what is going on. I also did not attend the AGM

I did not even see the unit since the key collection. The buyer did not ask me anything...as all handled by the agents. The only thing I hv is the furniture list and price to settle

So, am I dishonest?

[stalingrad]

Let hv a case study

I sold an unit in The Seaview, say Jan 2011, and this unit has been tenanted since TOP and I hv no knowledge as the tenant did not inform me anything, and I know nothing of what is going on. I also did not attend the AGM

I did not even see the unit since the key collection. The buyer did not ask me anything...as all handled by the agents. The only thing I hv is the furniture list and price to settle

So, am I dishonest?

Of course you are not. You are unaware of the problems. but we are talking about those that knew and purposely withheld information. those are skunks.

[devilplate]

if not reported leh? My point is unless the damage is minor, i feel it's my duty to let the dealer (or buyer) know - cos last thing i want is for that fault to needlessly endanger his life....i will be responsible indirectly if anything happens mah

So wat kind of problems constitutes life endangering?

Let say my car got intermittent gearbox problems....still working fine but abit jerky sometimes....will u disclose?

Or let say somehow the car is a pure lemon....gearbox replaced twice....so car out of warranty liao, and will u disclose the gearbox history to ur buyers?

[masterkey]

You mean there is a similar case of a buyer getting out of a sale by claiming that it is haunted? Where and when? Do you have any details?

Sounds very interesting, please share

Not the same, but similar. They got out based on similarly superstitious stuff like feng shui or some such. Don't have the records, but your friendly conveyance lawyer should be able to quote you the case details.

[devilplate]

Let say u sell ur hse, u noe tat ur neighbour is a very nasty person....will u disclose to ur buyers?

Another eg, my toilet plumbing always get choked frequently....at tat point of time i am selling my ppty, no plumbing issues but shd i disclose the history to my buyers?

[mantrix]

So wat kind of problems constitutes life endangering?

Let say my car got intermittent gearbox problems....still working fine but abit jerky sometimes....will u disclose?

Or let say somehow the car is a pure lemon....gearbox replaced twice....so car out of warranty liao, and will u disclose the gearbox history to ur buyers?

for example, if brakes are not working properly, that is a danger. Your gearbox problems is up to you - i think i have already made my point.

If I feel it may pose risk to the buyer, I will disclose..you can give 10,000 scenarios but it's up to you to decide. You don't have to impose your moral standards onto me, and likewise, me to you

chill

[SpinCity]

totally disagree with you. say someone sees your BMW, and says "hey, nice wheels, can I buy it?" you know that you car has tendency to accelerate without warning, and you are going to keep mum about it and sell it at the market value? Your moral standard is appalling.
Buyer, for his/her own right. has to know what he/she is buying into. You and I will do the same thing even for new cars. On the other hand, seller has good moral standard by disclosing all the defects about his/her car. It is not dishonest by keep mum, whether it is a moral problem is up to debate. If the defect can potentially endanger to the passengers or 3rd party, of course have to disclose, but to the buyers only, does the seller need to go to an Internet forum to confess about the defect of his/her car

Your moral standards explain why so many investors lost millions to minibonds, pinnacle notes, high notes 5, etc. these relationship managers knew these are speculative products sold as FD equivalents, but they kept mum about it. shocking dishonesty, in my view. in your view, this is par in singapore.
RMs have the responsibility to disclose the risks associated with investment to their clients. This is a seriously moral problem and legal issues. If you never ask your RM about investing in minibonds, why would he/she tell you not to buy it out of blue? Have you ever stand in front of a 7-11 to stop people buying cigarettes? or in front of a McDonald telling people hamburger is unhealthy?

if that is your moral standards, you have no right to complain about the accounting irregularities at S-chips. You bought these stocks and you did not ask the right questions, and that is why you stepped on the land mines. that is your problem.
Wrong analogy again, accounting irregularities is telling lies, misrepresentation, and is against the law. You don't complain, you can sue. Totally different from the case of The Sea View owners do not complain on a Internet forum about their houses.


In other countries, it is deemed the job of he seller to disclose whatever is relevant to the buyer. It is a legal and moral duty. shame on people like you. truly shocking.

Now you are in the business. Sellers to disclose to buyers, not to disclose to somebody like me who are not interest, or to a public forum. You wrote so much only the last paragraph make sense

[devilplate]

for example, if brakes are not working properly, that is a danger. Your gearbox problems is up to you - i think i have already made my point.

If I feel it may pose risk to the buyer, I will disclose..you can give 10,000 scenarios but it's up to you to decide. You don't have to impose your moral standards onto me, and likewise, me to you

chill

So afterall it is very grey...there is no black and white rite? Its all about wat u feel and how u feel

To some, small gearbox problems is life endangering but to others is not

Tats the point i am trying to put across

[mantrix]

Let say u sell ur hse, u noe tat ur neighbour is a very nasty person....will u disclose to ur buyers?

Another eg, my toilet plumbing always get choked frequently....at tat point of time i am selling my ppty, no plumbing issues but shd i disclose the history to my buyers?

maybe that neighbour only nasty to you but may get along superbly well with the new owner? All subjective isn't it?

[devilplate]

maybe that neighbour only nasty to you but may get along superbly well with the new owner? All subjective isn't it?

Yes...very subjective rite?

Same goes to lies...one can give thousands of lame excuses tat the lies to him r white lies too! Haha

[mantrix]

So afterall it is very grey...there is no black and white rite? Its all about wat u feel and how u feel

To some, small gearbox problems is life endangering but to others is not

Tats the point i am trying to put across

well i think the problem with over-analysing an analogy is you tend to become anal.

We are digressing but like you said, it's about what we feel. So I've given my perspective, what's the point of debating?

On how black-and-white it is, i guess it's to do internally with our moral standards. I would feel a serious braking problem constitutes a motoring risk (not just to the motorist, but to the pedestrians as well), some may feel no big deal.

[mantrix]

Yes...very subjective rite?

Same goes to lies...one can give thousands of lame excuses tat the lies to him r white lies too! Haha

sometimes i guess need to look within ourselves....maybe that particular neighbour is nasty because that person is obnoxious in the first place. Hehe

[devilplate]

sometimes i guess need to look within ourselves....maybe that particular neighbour is nasty because that person is obnoxious in the first place. Hehe

Same goes to haunted stories...

Mabe only the ghost haunt u only....whahaha

[stalingrad]

Now you are in the business. Sellers to disclose to buyers, not to disclose to somebody like me who are not interest, or to a public forum. You wrote so much only the last paragraph make sense

we are not talking about internet disclosures to uninterested parties. We are talking about disclosures to potential buyers.

totally different matters. You said earlier that unless the potential buyers ask about it, you are not obliged to a serious defect to him or her. that to me is moral problem, and a shocking one at that.

[devilplate]

So all these matter indeed very grey rite?

Wat info shd we disclose? R they relevant to the buyers? Its all very subjective isnt it

[devilplate]

we are not talking about internet disclosures to uninterested parties. We are talking about disclosures to potential buyers.

totally different matters. You said earlier that unless the potential buyers ask about it, you are not obliged to a serious defect to him or her. that to me is moral problem, and a shocking one at that.

What constitues a serious defect? Wat is Minor to u may be serious to me!

[stalingrad]

well i think the problem with over-analysing an analogy is you tend to become anal.

We are digressing but like you said, it's about what we feel. So I've given my perspective, what's the point of debating?

On how black-and-white it is, i guess it's to do internally with our moral standards. I would feel a serious braking problem constitutes a motoring risk (not just to the motorist, but to the pedestrians as well), some may feel no big deal.

I think devil just wants you to tell him that he is morally upright. He doesn't want to feel guilty.

but sorry, Devil, we cannot absolve you of your guilt. it is between you and your god.

[stalingrad]

So all these matter indeed very grey rite?

Wat info shd we disclose? R they relevant to the buyers? Its all very subjective isnt it

yes, it is subjective. but knowing your condo smells like shit but selling it to unwary buyers at market rates is just not moral.

[devilplate]

I think devil just wants you to tell him that he is morally upright. He doesn't want to feel guilty.

but sorry, Devil, we cannot absolve you of your guilt. it is between you and your god.

U r in ur own world

U cant even answer my questions

Wat is serious defect and what is minor?

Everyone got its own standards.

U r truely living in a state of self denial

[mantrix]

I think devil just wants you to tell him that he is morally upright. He doesn't want to feel guilty.

but sorry, Devil, we cannot absolve you of your guilt. it is between you and your god.

wah...this word 'absolve'...reminds me of the game Dante's Inferno where you can absolve them and save their souls or condemn them to eternal hell...

[devilplate]

yes, it is subjective. but knowing your condo smells like shit but selling it to unwary buyers at market rates is just not moral.

Since u oredi said it smell like shit and buyers shd smell it wat...wats there to disclose?

[stalingrad]

Since u oredi said it smell like shit and buyers shd smell it wat...wats there to disclose?

but I doubt it smells like shit all the time, and for a short stay or visit, the visitor may not notice it. but if you have to sleep through it, I am sure it is noticeable.

just like noise. I am sure that visitors to the Linear condo would not be bothered by the road noise at day as much as at night.

[HP65]

leave me out of this debate. I have never promoted my condo at the expense of other condos. If you insist I have, show evidence. If you cannot, please shut your trap.

Yes, I have said negative things about D10 condos. but that was my honest opinion. As far, my call for D10 properties to go down in flame has been proven prescient. How many units at D'leedon have been sold? very few, as you may well know.

That's why its so fun talking to you, Hahahaha.....then must report to admin. No wonder foreign trash like you has to now come begging Asians for jobs. If canada, the west is so good, why do you want to wait till later to go back, leave now if you have any backbone. Otherwise, shut your mouth as you r just an unwanted/ unwelcome trash begging asians for jobs. Sg govt was right to attract foreign talents and I myself has hired a couple of them...but not trash like you. Black also try to talk until white and always pretend to suffer from amnesia. Either your account has been hacked or you have a cloned ID. How can it be so many people misinterpreted your comments on all other D5 condos and other districts Please lah, since day 1 you have been trying to talk down condos at D10 especially coz you have been wanting to to buy a unit there. Otherwise why would you have so much comments and interest with D10 condos like Duchess Resi, Casabella, D'Leedon dating back to 2009.

Unfortunately for you, the price probably hasnt come down to the level you wanted....and actually neither did crappybelle appreciated to close the gap despite it being fully sold or occupied while D'leedon being less than 30% sold. In fact, it just show the resilience of D10/ CCR ppty prices.....and i wonder which planet you come from to think that if ever there is a crash, CCR will drop below your crappybelle, hohoho, clown of condosingapore.

So commie, trash, clown, whatever...no happy with my post, fly back to your mama's skirt in canada now and cry to her I repeat again, trash/ freeloaders like you are not welcomed and has been exposed.

[devilplate]

but I doubt it smells like shit all the time, and for a short stay or visit, the visitor may not notice it. but if you have to sleep through it, I am sure it is noticeable.

Again, its all subjective....some deem minor bcoz mabe they feel tat the smell thingy can be solved....whereas others feel tat its a big thing!

Different ppl got different level of tolerance as well

I can tell u la, there is no end to all these argument....all these r grey matters

There r thousands of scenerios, wat is minor defect to u may be very serious to others....

[stalingrad]

That's why its so fun talking to you, Hahahaha.....then must report to admin. No wonder foreign trash like you has to now come begging Asians for jobs. If canada, the west is so good, why do you want to wait till later to go back, leave now if you have any backbone. Otherwise, shut your mouth as you r just an unwanted/ unwelcome trash begging asians for jobs. Sg govt was right to attract foreign talents and I myself has hired a couple of them...but not trash like you. Black also try to talk until white and always pretend to suffer from amnesia. Either your account has been hacked or you have a cloned ID. How can it be so many people misinterpreted your comments on all other D5 condos and other districts Please lah, since day 1 you have been trying to talk down condos at D10 especially coz you have been wanting to to buy a unit there. Otherwise why would you have so much comments and interest with D10 condos like Duchess Resi, Casabella, D'Leedon dating back to 2009.

Unfortunately for you, the price probably hasnt come down to the level you wanted....and actually neither did crappybelle appreciated to close the gap despite it being fully sold or occupied while D'leedon being less than 30% sold. In fact, it just show the resilience of D10/ CCR ppty prices.....and i wonder which planet you come from to think that if ever there is a crash, CCR will drop below your crappybelle, hohoho, clown of condosingapore.

So commie, trash, clown, whatever...no happy with my post, fly back to your mama's skirt in canada now and cry to her I repeat again, trash/ freeloaders like you are not welcomed and has been exposed.

haha, you are not hurting me with your insults.

what is more important is while I am sitting on my 100% capital gain, your trashy condo is rotting like 1000 year egg. while I laugh all the way to the bank, I will throw a few coins in your cup on the ground.

by the way, I am still waiting for your evidence of my promoting anything. If you can't, go back where you came from, which is under the sink.

[stalingrad]

Again, its all subjective....some deem minor bcoz mabe they feel tat the smell thingy can be solved....whereas others feel tat its a big thing!

Different ppl got different level of tolerance as well

I can tell u la, there is no end to all these argument....all these r grey matters

There r thousands of scenerios, wat is minor defect to u may be very serious to others....

you think that the SV MC would go to war with the developer over a minor smell problem or water treatment issue?

again, it is between you and your god. We cannot make you feel less guilty.

[HP65]

haha, you are not hurting me with your insults.

what is more important is while I am sitting on my 100% capital gain, your trashy condo is rotting like 1000 year egg. while I laugh all the way to the bank, I will throw a few coins in your cup on the ground.

by the way, I am still waiting for your evidence of my promoting anything. If you can't, go back where you came from, which is under the sink.

Fortunately for you, i'm lazy and I tried the easy way of searching which is to `find all posts by you' and can only go back till 2011 (8 pages)...but people who has been in this forum long enough WILL know what I'm talking about since it started since 2008 or 2009

Like you posted, its between you and your God......

And btw, so what if my condos are rotting like 10,000 yr old eggs? There r still great interests in it and if ever I want/ need to sell, there will be long queue of buyers at the snap of my finger.....that is the beauty of D10 ppties unlike crappybelle where in times of crisis, if you even managed to find a prospect responding to your ad, they will criticize here and there and frustrate the hell out of you. Eventually, to liquidate, you will have to offer extra discount to off-load it. If u r seasoned enuf in ppty, not just Sg, you will know what i mean....

[HP65]

haha, you are not hurting me with your insults.

what is more important is while I am sitting on my 100% capital gain, your trashy condo is rotting like 1000 year egg. while I laugh all the way to the bank, I will throw a few coins in your cup on the ground.

by the way, I am still waiting for your evidence of my promoting anything. If you can't, go back where you came from, which is under the sink.

Er....i'm not so mean as to want to `hurt you'...i'm just stating facts and its widely publicized that trashed like you are not welcomed, even by foreigners as you trash are giving the real talents a bad name. You know what's happening now, I'm already reviewing the appraisal process for my company together with other partners for 2012 and we have all agreed that between a under-performing local or a foreigner, we will counsel/ managed out the foreigner. This is the morally right thing to do for Sg and we are just doing a small part for Sg and the govt to appease the dissatisfaction among locals.