View Poll Results: Bull or Bear

Voters
75. You may not vote on this poll
  • Bullish

    38 50.67%
  • Bearish

    37 49.33%
Page 27 of 61 FirstFirst ... 27121722232425262728293031323742475257 ... LastLast
Results 781 to 810 of 1809

Thread: Property market sentiments?

  1. #781
    teddybear's Avatar
    teddybear is offline Global recession is coming....
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    10,800

    Default

    I know that there are still many people who are still cynical on the current bull run and are even openly advocating that "sooner or later the property bubble will burst ...". That set me thinking, how on earth people expect the property bubble to burst so quickly again when it had already burst in 2008 and just recovering only in May 2009? (just that this time the period the property bubble burst to recovery is damn short!). Sometimes, people's brains like to play mirages. The fact that after the previous property bubble burst takes so long to recover, they want to believe this time is no exception (and they hope so too because they are still out of the market and dripping siliver hoping to buy Cheap Cheap). The more people believe that this bull run will not last, the longer it will go up (as usual, 20% of the people will earn 80% of the money, leaving cramps for those who finally start to believe that this is the real bull-run).

    Quote Originally Posted by Localite
    The ppty market is now in a strong cyclical bull market after a deep recession. Prices will appreciate sharply and we will surpase the 2007 peak.

  2. #782
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    218

    Default

    The bull run could possibly be a self-fulfilling prophecy

  3. #783
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    1,141

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear
    I know that there are still many people who are still cynical on the current bull run and are even openly advocating that "sooner or later the property bubble will burst ...". That set me thinking, how on earth people expect the property bubble to burst so quickly again when it had already burst in 2008 and just recovering only in May 2009? (just that this time the period the property bubble burst to recovery is damn short!). Sometimes, people's brains like to play mirages. The fact that after the previous property bubble burst takes so long to recover, they want to believe this time is no exception (and they hope so too because they are still out of the market and dripping siliver hoping to buy Cheap Cheap). The more people believe that this bull run will not last, the longer it will go up (as usual, 20% of the people will earn 80% of the money, leaving cramps for those who finally start to believe that this is the real bull-run).
    Never know dude. Last peak those that bought high when market starts to come down, agents told me mah.
    ''My seller can hold, no one want to sell @ loss.''
    Hmmm...when things goes wrong, see those despo what price they throw.

    When you need to shit, go and clear it. Dun hold and dirty the pants.

  4. #784
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    1,286

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear
    I know that there are still many people who are still cynical on the current bull run and are even openly advocating that "sooner or later the property bubble will burst ...". That set me thinking, how on earth people expect the property bubble to burst so quickly again when it had already burst in 2008 and just recovering only in May 2009? (just that this time the period the property bubble burst to recovery is damn short!). Sometimes, people's brains like to play mirages. The fact that after the previous property bubble burst takes so long to recover, they want to believe this time is no exception (and they hope so too because they are still out of the market and dripping siliver hoping to buy Cheap Cheap). The more people believe that this bull run will not last, the longer it will go up (as usual, 20% of the people will earn 80% of the money, leaving cramps for those who finally start to believe that this is the real bull-run).
    I am also quite surprised by the strength of this "bull run".

    But as long as it lasts, and my networth keeps going up by the day, I'll be here to post messages.

    Once it is over, I'll go back to burying my head in the sand (which I did for the past year).

    Posting messages is distracting me from my work but it is very addictive.

  5. #785
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    90

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Property_Owner
    Never know dude. Last peak those that bought high when market starts to come down, agents told me mah.
    ''My seller can hold, no one want to sell @ loss.''
    Hmmm...when things goes wrong, see those despo what price they throw.

    When you need to shit, go and clear it. Dun hold and dirty the pants.
    Dun worry, there is no bubble yet. Now the wave of high prices are all set by developers and new launches, not sub sales. Only when sub sales create a new wave of even higher prices than developers and new launches, then the bubble is created.

    Anyway, its like the stock market, as long as there are still people doubting the high prices, it would continue to go up. When there are no more comments that bubbles are forming, no more comments that stock is trading too high. Even all the old uncles and aunties are all buying like there is no tomorrow, then be beware.

  6. #786
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    191

    Default

    u are right. there is still fear in the mkt (abeit in smaller % now). so mkt still has some upside. only when everyone talks abt buying a property mkt to make $, then that is the time to exit. (just like 2007 when everyone just buy and flip and see it as very lucrative to buy ad sell). As can seen from this forum....bull camp 50%, bear camp 50%. the risk takers whom have taken the plunge when the ratio was 10-90, (could) have been rewarded.

  7. #787
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1,069

    Default

    S&P500 crossed 1,000. Oil at resistance level of 73USD. One worrying sign is Baltic Dry Index is weak @ 3,250. Market is looking for excuse to sell for a profit now.

  8. #788
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    94

    Default

    Asking rental for most prime condos have dropped another 5% the last 2 months. Yet the for sale asking price has obviously increased. Return yields are even more pathetic at current asking prices than a few months ago. At least in 2007/2008 rents where a lot higher....

  9. #789
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    1,286

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kalumder
    Asking rental for most prime condos have dropped another 5% the last 2 months. Yet the for sale asking price has obviously increased. Return yields are even more pathetic at current asking prices than a few months ago. At least in 2007/2008 rents where a lot higher....
    But still better than the 0.4288% that UOB advertised so boldly for a 5-month fixed deposit, minimum $40,000.

    With this type of low interest rate environment, the lender is actually subsidising the borrower.

    Will the interest rate remain low? I think for a long time ...

    Did you see today's news that Seagate is retrenching another 2,000 people at its plant at Ang Mo Kio 5?

    As long as the economy is in such bad shape, the Government will have no choice but to keep interest rates really low and flood the market with money.

    Guess where all the money end up with? Property investors, speculators and specuvestors. Exactly like what is happening in China now.

    By participating in the property market, investors become little "Goldman Sachs" by diverting the Government's bail out funds into their own little pockets!

    The Government won't dare to curb the market this time.

    If it strikes at Ang Mo Kio Avenue 8 (Centro), more blood will flow out of Ang Mo Kio Avenue 5.

  10. #790
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    923

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jitkiat
    S&P500 crossed 1,000. Oil at resistance level of 73USD. One worrying sign is Baltic Dry Index is weak @ 3,250. Market is looking for excuse to sell for a profit now.
    Selling has already began for a while.. just slowly and gradually to the retail investors. Should watch out for massive selling.

  11. #791
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    58

    Default

    Rental has certainly dropped by between 10-20% for prime area compared to the peak. However, the price of the property has also dropped between 30-40%. Borrowing cost has come down by around 1% pt compared to 2 yrs ago.

    With economy bottoming up, rental are expected to stay flat or go up as company starts hiring, especially the financial institution.

    If you choose the right property, you will be surprise to find one with similar net yield.


    Quote Originally Posted by kalumder
    Asking rental for most prime condos have dropped another 5% the last 2 months. Yet the for sale asking price has obviously increased. Return yields are even more pathetic at current asking prices than a few months ago. At least in 2007/2008 rents where a lot higher....

  12. #792
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    5,837

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by durian
    Rental has certainly dropped by between 10-20% for prime area compared to the peak. However, the price of the property has also dropped between 30-40%. Borrowing cost has come down by around 1% pt compared to 2 yrs ago.

    With economy bottoming up, rental are expected to stay flat or go up as company starts hiring, especially the financial institution.

    If you choose the right property, you will be surprise to find one with similar net yield.
    yes probably only the financial sector is rehiring .. but still dont forget how many they let go last year ...

    and location is impt .. probably has to be near Shenton

  13. #793
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    90

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by proud owner
    yes probably only the financial sector is rehiring .. but still dont forget how many they let go last year ...

    and location is impt .. probably has to be near Shenton
    Actaully, I feel that all is the same la. Buy Jurong Point, NTU professors and students would rent, West Coast or Pasir Panjang, NUS lecturers or students would rent. Buy Changi area, SIA staff would rent. It just that different area cater to different groups, thats all. Now buy DBR, they said the fourth uni and those working CGH would rent. Woodleigh, the 'dont know what' school setting up there would rent. Buy anywhere people also rent.

  14. #794
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    1,141

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by proud owner
    yes probably only the financial sector is rehiring .. but still dont forget how many they let go last year ...

    and location is impt .. probably has to be near Shenton

    Sail will maybe be better then MBR for rental come next year.

  15. #795
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1,069

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Condorich
    Selling has already began for a while.. just slowly and gradually to the retail investors. Should watch out for massive selling.
    It is hard to say. It is moving sideways now. We need to see the next big move come b4 we know what is going on right now. Overall, the sentiment remains bullish. My primary concern is weakness in Baltric Dry Index, last night down again -3.5%, now is near 3,000 level. The resistance at 3500 for Shanghai A-shares is pretty strong too.

  16. #796
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    253

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Property_Owner
    Sail will maybe be better then MBR for rental come next year.
    Pal... May i ask why do u feel so? Who do u think r likelihood the tenants, ie their profile & occupation

  17. #797
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    3,721

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Property_Owner
    Sail will maybe be better then MBR for rental come next year.
    or MBR pushes down rental of Sail ... lol

  18. #798
    xebay11 is offline New Launch Project Specialist
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    1,439

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wqmai
    Actaully, I feel that all is the same la. Buy Jurong Point, NTU professors and students would rent, West Coast or Pasir Panjang, NUS lecturers or students would rent. Buy Changi area, SIA staff would rent. It just that different area cater to different groups, thats all. Now buy DBR, they said the fourth uni and those working CGH would rent. Woodleigh, the 'dont know what' school setting up there would rent. Buy anywhere people also rent.
    Wonder what is the big deal with 4th Uni? who would want their million dollar property to be rented by messy and untidy students? Also they may sign the lease for three students but may have 6 or 8 third world country students actually staying there. I was an overseas student before and also ever owned property within 1 km from Murdoch University in OZ, rental to students sucks big time.

  19. #799
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1,069

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by xebay11
    Wonder what is the big deal with 4th Uni? who would want their million dollar property to be rented by messy and untidy students? Also they may sign the lease for three students but may have 6 or 8 third world country students actually staying there. I was an overseas student before and also ever owned property within 1 km from Murdoch University in OZ, rental to students sucks big time.
    Students normally stay in HDB so HDB resale prices more likely to get a boost rather than condos. Minister said 4th uni in partnership with MIT & top Chinese uni and is going to be research-based (postgraduates > undergraduates) so expect a healthy in-flow of foreigners (lecturers, research fellows) to the sleepy Changi area. The shopping centres & makan places like Eastpoint, Simpang Bedok, T3@Changi, CBP, Expo will have better biz next time.

  20. #800
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1,069

    Default

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?...=IND&x=15&y=11

    Shipping cost crashing ... bulls beware

  21. #801
    xebay11 is offline New Launch Project Specialist
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    1,439

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jitkiat
    Students normally stay in HDB so HDB resale prices more likely to get a boost rather than condos. Minister said 4th uni in partnership with MIT & top Chinese uni and is going to be research-based (postgraduates > undergraduates) so expect a healthy in-flow of foreigners (lecturers, research fellows) to the sleepy Changi area. The shopping centres & makan places like Eastpoint, Simpang Bedok, T3@Changi, CBP, Expo will have better biz next time.
    Unis normally build apartments for their lecturers and research fellows so I don't think the spillover effect would be great, afterall almost any development in from Bedok up to Changi are flogging off the accomodation to this limited market so the supply would be great.

  22. #802
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1,069

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by xebay11
    Unis normally build apartments for their lecturers and research fellows so I don't think the spillover effect would be great, afterall almost any development in from Bedok up to Changi are flogging off the accomodation to this limited market so the supply would be great.
    Ya, no big deal to property prices. 4th university however will bring economic activities to the Changi/Bedok area. If you are looking for investment grade property, better look at Marina, Beach Road, Marine Parade area. Again, market can be unpredictable too ... who would have predicted that Optima can sell off at 850psf a few months ago?

  23. #803
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1,069

    Default

    Shanghai A-share might be in for a huge correction to 2600-2800 soon

  24. #804
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,493

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jitkiat
    Shanghai A-share might be in for a huge correction to 2600-2800 soon
    Did you short?

    Anyway... you may want to consider this undervalued and overlooked property counter Tuan Sing.

    Tuan Sing owns quite a number of investment and development properties in prime districts in Singapore. Just a sampling below of its Singapore properties.

    Katong Mall (commercial)
    Robinson Towers (office)
    Robinson Towers Annex (office)
    International Factors Building (office)
    The Oxley (mixed commercial cum residential)
    Harrison Industrial Building (industrial)
    Century Warehouse (industrial)
    Botanika (residential)
    NEW - Mont Timah residential project (property devt)

    At the moment Tuan Sing hasn't started to sell their 3 prime properties along Robinson Road yet. But in line with the improving sentiment and to take advantage of a good price, who knows what may happen in the coming months

    The redevelopment potential for these 3 properties alone would already be a goldmine for Tuan Sing


    Below an extract from an analysis circa 2007

    TUAN Sing must surely rank as one of the most under-appreciated property plays on the Singapore bourse.

    The shares of this mainboard-listed company has given up a third of its value in the last two months, no thanks to the sub-prime-induced market jitters. It closed at 32 cents yesterday, way below its July high of around 42 cents.

    For the first half ended June 30, 2007, Tuan Sing reported a more than fivefold jump in net profit to $48 million, from $9.2 million for the previous corresponding period.

    Much of this was due to the partial sales of its District 10 Botanika freehold residential project. A substantial portion also came from the A$130 million (S$198.9 million) revaluation surplus on its Australia-based Grand Hotel Group. It has also started equity accounting for its very profitable hotel/hospitality division, having raised its stakeholding in it from 25 per cent to 50 per cent this year.

    Redevelopment potential

    Meanwhile its retail business, built around the PanWest golf chain, and its industrial services division were also profitable during the first half.

    But what is really interesting about Tuan Sing - and which the market has barely noticed - is its portfolio of prime commercial properties right in the heart of Singapore's financial district which lend themselves to redevelopment.

    The cluster of three properties comprises the ageing 13-storey Robinson Towers on Robinson Road, its adjacent Annex building, and the 13-storey International Factors Buildings which sits on the Maxwell Street side.

    Together, this 'island' of three properties, sandwiched between Robinson Road and Maxwell Street, have a total built up plot ratio of 10 times, comprising a total floor area of some 12,500 sq m, or some 134,000 sq ft.

    Tuan Sing's valuation of these properties, done last year, was $154 million.

    That was way before the recent property market surge - both commercial property prices and rentals in the CBD have risen significantly since then.

    Even erring on the conservative side, this cluster of Tuan Sing's properties could be worth well over $300 million in current market conditions. And that doesn't take into account a potential redevelopment of these properties.

    Under the current URA masterplan, the plot ratio of these properties can be raised by 40 per cent if redeveloped. This works out to a potential gross floor area of some 187,000 sq ft.

    And one doesn't need to be a rocket scientist to crunch the potential numbers.

    New properties in the vicinity are fetching prices upwards of $2,000 psf. Recently, Hong Leong sold its No 1 Finlayson Green building at an average price of $2,680 psf.

    More recently, Macquarie Global Property Advisers (MGPA) put in a record S$2.02 billion bid - which works out to $1,409 psf of potential gross floor area - for the Marina View plot. Property market insiders reckon that units in a 40-storey building erected on this plot could fetch upwards of $2,500 psf.

    If these are the benchmarks, a redeveloped cluster comprising Robinson Towers, its Annex and International Factors building would be worth a staggering $500 million or more.

    Spread over Tuan Sing's 1,137 million shares, the number works out to a whopping 44 cents per share - and this is not counting its other property assets.

    Stock re-rating?

    Whichever way one looks at it, the potential numbers are quite staggering for a company which has been keeping a very, very low profile recently.

    While Tuan Sing officials have not said much, the company has nevertheless started moving towards revaluing the assets in question.

    And being fully aware that the current property boom will not go on indefinitely, the odds are that the Liem Family which controls Tuan Sing will, sooner rather than later, decide to redevelop its valuable Robinson Towers and adjacent properties.

    There are already rumours that it has already been approached by several potential partners who want to participate in this redevelopment. Amongst the names bandied about are the Riady-controlled Lippo group and mainboard-listed UOL.

    For now, all this is just market talk.

    But when the inevitable happens, this mainboard-listed player will emerge from its current slumber. Needless to add, this will force a serious re-rating of the stock.

  25. #805
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1,069

    Default

    Worst weekly decline for Shanghai A-shares since the bull market began
    First weekly decline for S&P500 in 5 weeks
    Baltic Dry Index in a downward trend below 3,000

    Technically, correction has begun


  26. #806
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    9,279

    Default

    If i am not wrong, for Shanghai A, its also the 1st 2 consecutive weekly decline since feb as well.

    We'd never know for Shanghai sometimes, maybe below 3000 and instead of triggering a technical bear, buyers swarm in to buy. lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by jitkiat
    Worst weekly decline for Shanghai A-shares since the bull market began
    First weekly decline for S&P500 in 5 weeks
    Baltic Dry Index in a downward trend below 3,000

    Technically, correction has begun


  27. #807
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    265

    Default buy or not???

    if u thinking to buy condo now the ideal choice is MBR & DBR.

  28. #808
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    58

    Default

    Yes, buy near the 2 IRs won't go wrong. Many people underestimate the impact that $5-6 Billion investment will yield toits neighbourhood.

    Quote Originally Posted by proud owner
    yes probably only the financial sector is rehiring .. but still dont forget how many they let go last year ...

    and location is impt .. probably has to be near Shenton

  29. #809
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    5,841

    Default

    why bother paying $2000psf for a condo near IR when everywhere in singapore is just a skip and hop away...


    Quote Originally Posted by durian
    Yes, buy near the 2 IRs won't go wrong. Many people underestimate the impact that $5-6 Billion investment will yield toits neighbourhood.

  30. #810
    xebay11 is offline New Launch Project Specialist
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    1,439

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Regulators
    why bother paying $2000psf for a condo near IR when everywhere in singapore is just a skip and hop away...
    Because condos near IR cater for the very well heeled foreign and local investors.....who accept and expect no compromises on what they buy, I guess from your post you are not in that league.

Similar Threads

  1. Property Market Sentiments - According to the ground
    By mcmlxxvi in forum Singapore Private Condominium Property Discussion and News
    Replies: 234
    -: 13-02-13, 15:36
  2. Property Market Sentiments 2012
    By Laguna in forum Singapore Private Condominium Property Discussion and News
    Replies: 218
    -: 01-09-12, 02:38
  3. Property market sentiments 2011
    By rattydrama in forum Singapore Private Condominium Property Discussion and News
    Replies: 4793
    -: 22-12-11, 12:54
  4. Property measures cool sentiments
    By mr funny in forum Singapore Private Condominium Property Discussion and News
    Replies: 5
    -: 18-01-11, 01:51
  5. Property market sentiments 2010
    By Property_Owner in forum Singapore Private Condominium Property Discussion and News
    Replies: 4291
    -: 28-12-10, 23:54

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •