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Thread: 8@Woodleigh (D13, 99 years Leasehold, Fraser Centrepoint)

  1. #31
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    Woodleigh Grove is quiet. but this Development is facing the main road. not sure if it is noisy as this road is consider quite heavy.

    I know opposite is the former graveyard. - now turn into a park.


  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhokc
    I know opposite is the former graveyard. - now turn into a park.

    i think it will be for future hdb development... but don't when

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheerful
    I think viosrider was saying something like Woodsville 28 slightly better ... that's quite true. This one not exactly above MRT (like W28). Think probably about 50m at least .... maybe like that can have tt kinda indicative pricing??
    Actually a few differences from Woodsville 28:

    1) W28 is apartment status, not condo status. A case in point, there is no water feature at entrance and no tennis court. The land plot is also much smaller.

    2) W28 is at Woodsville Close where there is mixed devt (eg Indian/Chinese Clan associations and Rajoo Casket Shop), one exit to main road shared by many condo owners, and the main point is all 2-bedder and 2+1bedder units at W28 are west-facing for the entire unit. To have the noon sun shining thru the living room and all bedroom windows for a good half of the day reduces the livability of the unit.

    3) W28 was launched in Sep08, when all the Bear Stearns/sub-prime news was shaking up the market. There were hardly any takers for W28 for the longest time till FCL relaunched it early this year and reduced the asking price. The timing has changed.

    I am also interested in this devt, but the indicative pricing for studio units is really unpalatable. Let's hope FCL lowers it during VIP launch.

    My 2 .

  4. #34
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    MND just adds 2 sites to H2 reserve list land sales schedule:- a residential site at Bartley Road/Lorong How Sun and a commercial and residential plot at New Upper Changi Road/Bedok North Drive.

    The residential site at Bartley Road/Lorong How Sun is located next to the new Bartley Circle Line (CCL) Station. Would this be a better buy, if you can wait?

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by new2mondrian
    Actually a few differences from Woodsville 28:

    1) W28 is apartment status, not condo status. A case in point, there is no water feature at entrance and no tennis court. The land plot is also much smaller.

    2) W28 is at Woodsville Close where there is mixed devt (eg Indian/Chinese Clan associations and Rajoo Casket Shop), one exit to main road shared by many condo owners, and the main point is all 2-bedder and 2+1bedder units at W28 are west-facing for the entire unit. To have the noon sun shining thru the living room and all bedroom windows for a good half of the day reduces the livability of the unit.

    3) W28 was launched in Sep08, when all the Bear Stearns/sub-prime news was shaking up the market. There were hardly any takers for W28 for the longest time till FCL relaunched it early this year and reduced the asking price. The timing has changed.

    I am also interested in this devt, but the indicative pricing for studio units is really unpalatable. Let's hope FCL lowers it during VIP launch.

    My 2 .

    Wah....got official definition boh? ref: apartment vs condo -URA?

    So u mean the likes of Nova 88, Newton Suites, Regency Suites, Linc, Lincoln Modern, etc. to name a few are NOT condo?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by southpark2000
    Wah....got official definition boh? ref: apartment vs condo -URA?

    So u mean the likes of Nova 88, Newton Suites, Regency Suites, Linc, Lincoln Modern, etc. to name a few are NOT condo?
    Extracted from the URA website-

    What is the difference between condominium and apartment? Condominium and apartments are different classifications specified in planning permissions issued by URA. You can read more about the differences at this url: http://www.ura.gov.sg/circulars/text/dcdrhb_d0e4.htm.



  7. #37
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    Red face Yes , Condo status vs Apartment status

    Quote Originally Posted by southpark2000
    Wah....got official definition boh? ref: apartment vs condo -URA?

    So u mean the likes of Nova 88, Newton Suites, Regency Suites, Linc, Lincoln Modern, etc. to name a few are NOT condo?
    If you look at URA, all these are classifierd as apartment status.

    Yes, a very clear cut definition for a condo (bigger plot, with much landspacing and landscape, more full basic facilities like a grounded swimming pool and not a lap pool in the sky, preferably also with a grounded tennis court ).

    Simple as that. People who buy properties should be very clear if they are buying a "condo" status or "apartment" status just like if they are buying a FH vs LH properties.

  8. #38
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    Talking Condo vs Apartment status

    Quote Originally Posted by qianfugui
    If you look at URA, all these are classifierd as apartment status.

    Yes, a very clear cut definition for a condo (bigger plot, with much landspacing and landscape, more full basic facilities like a grounded swimming pool and not a lap pool in the sky, preferably also with a grounded tennis court ).

    Simple as that. People who buy properties should be very clear if they are buying a "condo" status or "apartment" status just like if they are buying a FH vs LH properties.
    Just to add fuel to fire ... all potential buyers and tenants are easily "swan" by a Condo and not an apartment status flat ceteris paribus .... unless location and accessibility (proximity to MRT stn ). Quite common sense thinking...

  9. #39
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    Hi Friends,

    FYI, the developer has postpone the launch date one week later to June 20(Sat).

    For those who is interested to get more information on the unit size / no. of units for each room type / est. psf as well as draft site plan, please sms at 9772-7777 or email me at [email protected]

    I look forward to hear from you.



    Cheers,
    Ray
    9772-7777

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ray.97727777
    Hi Friends,

    FYI, the developer has postpone the launch date one week later to June 20(Sat).

    For those who is interested to get more information on the unit size / no. of units for each room type / est. psf as well as draft site plan, please sms at 9772-7777 or email me at [email protected]

    I look forward to hear from you.



    Cheers,
    Ray
    9772-7777
    Hi Ray,

    You got PM.
    Regards,

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by new2mondrian
    Extracted from the URA website-

    What is the difference between condominium and apartment? Condominium and apartments are different classifications specified in planning permissions issued by URA. You can read more about the differences at this url: http://www.ura.gov.sg/circulars/text/dcdrhb_d0e4.htm.


    Interesting.........quotes from yr URL....

    "PART 1

    1 OVERVIEW

    1 Residential developments in Singapore are broadly classified according to the following:

    (a) REGISTRATION INSTRUMENT

    They may be landed (with land title or strata title) or non-landed (with strata title or strata lease) properties.


    (b) DENSITY

    They may be the low, medium and high density housing development.


    (c) HOUSING TYPE

    They may be:
    i) Detached houses (bungalows), semi-detached houses, terrace houses, strata detached houses (strata bungalows), strata semi-detached houses, strata terrace houses and mixed strata landed housing. They are low density housing. ii) Condominium flats development on sites of 0.4 ha or larger.iii) Non-condominium flats development on small sites below 0.4 ha.


    2 Flats development whether condominium or not, are mainly medium and high density housing. The low intensity and low-rise flats are low density housing."

    ......

    "FLATS

    FLATS DEVELOPMENT
    1 Flats or apartments in Singapore are non-landed housing developments. Each unit is for residential purpose only. It has its own separate access usually taken from a common property area. The units can either be strata titled or be on lease title. They form the bulk of medium to high density housing in Singapore.


    2 The building height of flats varies from 4 storeys to 30 storeys or even higher. Depending on the available land area, the site could contain one or more apartment blocks. In either case, it is usually intensively developed with minimum communal open space under the common ownership of the residents.


    3 Strata subdivision is allowed for the residential units. Flats development will not be accorded condominium status as they do not satisfy condominium criteria.

    PARAMETERS
    5 The parameters for flat developments are:


    (a) Site Area (i) Unlike condominium housing development, there is generally no minimum control on the site area as long as the site can be developed to meet the flats boundary setback requirements. *However, developments involving breakaway from existing landed housing (eg. breakaway of a few terraced houses from an existing streetblock) would be subject to the minimum plot size requirements below. [*updated as at Nov 2004]"



    "6 CONDOMINIUM FLATS

    CONDOMINIUM FLATS
    1 Unlike flat developments, condominium housing requires a larger land area. Condominium flats, too, form the bulk of medium to high density housing in Singapore. There are usually more generous provision of communal and recreational facilities in condominium flats. The communal facilities are under the common ownership of the residents and are provided for their enjoyment. The residential units are only allowed strata subdivision.


    2 In larger sites, the building height of condominium flats may vary among the various blocks of flats. The development could comprise a mix of 4 storeys low-rise blocks and high-rise blocks of 30 storeys and above subject to the allowable height limit. For small sites, there could be only space for one apartment block up to the allowable height, but with generous provision of communal and recreational facilities.

    PARAMETERS

    4 The parameters for condominium flats are :


    (a) Site Area (i) The minimum site area for a condominium development is 0.4ha. This is to ensure that there is enough space to provide for communal and recreational facilities in a luxurious green setting.


    (b) Site Coverage

    Site coverage is a measurement of the footprint of all buildings expressed as a percentage of the nett site area. It is an indication of how much the site has been built on. The maximum site coverage allowed for condominium development is 40% (including covered car parks)."


    I see no "must have waterfall and tennis court = condo"; only distinction b/w condo and non-condo flats are the following:

    1. Size of the site at least 0.4 ha
    2. Site coverage must not exceed 40%

    ....dunno what you are reading that I am not....so can advise?

    Anyhow:
    - W28 site is 0.4 ha
    - It has max. coverage of 40% (actually slightly more but kanna waived)

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by southpark2000
    Interesting.........quotes from yr URL....

    I see no "must have waterfall and tennis court = condo"; only distinction b/w condo and non-condo flats are the following:

    1. Size of the site at least 0.4 ha
    2. Site coverage must not exceed 40%

    ....dunno what you are reading that I am not....so can advise?

    Anyhow:
    - W28 site is 0.4 ha
    - It has max. coverage of 40% (actually slightly more but kanna waived)
    There is no specific requirement for any waterfall or tennis court to be a condo. What I said in my earlier posting was that W28 devt itself has no water feature and tennis court. Apologies if I was not clear in my post.

    As for whether condo status or not, yes, it is granted by URA after the devt has satisfied its criteria. But for W28, despite its site is 0.4ha, it is clearly apartment status. You go to URA website, go to the link "private property transactions with caveats lodged" and you can see all the caveats lodged against W28 are classified "Apartment" status by URA.

    Street NameTypeNo. of UnitsPrice
    ($)Land/
    Floor Area (Sqft)Unit Price ($psf)Date of Option Exercised / Sales Agreement SignedWOODSVILLE 28WOODSVILLE CLOSEApartment1796,0001,033770May-09WOODSVILLE 28WOODSVILLE CLOSEApartment1790,0001,033765May-09

    Hope this clarifies.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by new2mondrian
    There is no specific requirement for any waterfall or tennis court to be a condo. What I said in my earlier posting was that W28 devt itself has no water feature and tennis court. Apologies if I was not clear in my post.

    As for whether condo status or not, yes, it is granted by URA after the devt has satisfied its criteria. But for W28, despite its site is 0.4ha, it is clearly apartment status. You go to URA website, go to the link "private property transactions with caveats lodged" and you can see all the caveats lodged against W28 are classified "Apartment" status by URA.
    oooo .. yah not cheap hor for Apt status. Though it's v near MRT, but LH99 still kinda ex ... got waterfall anot not so important, but think no tennis court, so not exactly full facilities ..

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheerful
    oooo .. yah not cheap hor for Apt status. Though it's v near MRT, but LH99 still kinda ex ... got waterfall anot not so important, but think no tennis court, so not exactly full facilities ..
    cheap or not really depends. cos the squarish plot of land right outside PP MRT station, which is really right next to W28 is probably to be developed as commercial use. If a shopping center comes up right beside W28, the price will soar. But then again, right now everything is simply vacant land. What one buys into is simply potential potential potential... What is the price tag for potential? I really don't know. And also depends on who wins the next GE at PP right? That will affect the timing and pace at which PP gets developed.

  15. #45
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    True oso lah .. potential is there though invisible. But at least wat is visible now is the proximity to MRT lor ... somewat like those projects above kovan mrt, LH but not exactly cheap IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by new2mondrian
    There is no specific requirement for any waterfall or tennis court to be a condo. What I said in my earlier posting was that W28 devt itself has no water feature and tennis court. Apologies if I was not clear in my post.

    As for whether condo status or not, yes, it is granted by URA after the devt has satisfied its criteria. But for W28, despite its site is 0.4ha, it is clearly apartment status. You go to URA website, go to the link "private property transactions with caveats lodged" and you can see all the caveats lodged against W28 are classified "Apartment" status by URA.

    Street NameTypeNo. of UnitsPrice
    ($)Land/
    Floor Area (Sqft)Unit Price ($psf)Date of Option Exercised / Sales Agreement SignedWOODSVILLE 28WOODSVILLE CLOSEApartment1796,0001,033770May-09WOODSVILLE 28WOODSVILLE CLOSEApartment1790,0001,033765May-09

    Hope this clarifies.
    Ah so.....understand.... thanks for the clarification....

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    just looked at the woodleigh area on google earth.

    my god, it's right across the road from biddadari cemetary, and reacheable from town via one of the most congested industrial cross junctions in Singapore, and downwind from mt vernon Why in the world would anyone pay $900psf for a 99yr? even a FH isn't worth it at that price.

    the exclusive 'expat' bungalow community at woodleigh park is in the northwest, far far away from biddadari so please dun get suckered in if the developers use this as a selling point, esp for developments in woodleigh close like the new FCL.

  18. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheerful
    oooo .. yah not cheap hor for Apt status. Though it's v near MRT, but LH99 still kinda ex ... got waterfall anot not so important, but think no tennis court, so not exactly full facilities ..
    So, you mean that valuation for apts should be lower than condos?

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    OMG a cemetary within 1km of the condo is a no no man. kitchener, boon keng or st michael is still a better buy than woodleigh.


    Quote Originally Posted by gfoo
    just looked at the woodleigh area on google earth.

    my god, it's right across the road from biddadari cemetary, and reacheable from town via one of the most congested industrial cross junctions in Singapore, and downwind from mt vernon Why in the world would anyone pay $900psf for a 99yr? even a FH isn't worth it at that price.

    the exclusive 'expat' bungalow community at woodleigh park is in the northwest, far far away from biddadari so please dun get suckered in if the developers use this as a selling point, esp for developments in woodleigh close like the new FCL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Regulators
    OMG a cemetary within 1km of the condo is a no no man. kitchener, boon keng or st michael is still a better buy than woodleigh.
    Its already not a cemetey from yr 2006.
    Look at bishan as it was once cemetery also, but look at it now...do you think bishan properties are cheap? or ppl still mind so much abt living near that bishan once cemetery area?

  21. #51
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    Actually my 2 cents to all these is, it all comes down to the eventual pricing vis-a-vis the entire market. Based on current pricing, $7xxpsf for the launch will be a reasonable range, based on comparable pricing elsewhere. But based on FCL's indicative price list, the $7xxpsf is actually applicable to 2-bedders and above. So it is not too bad. It is the studio units that are over-priced. But of course when u compare it to 2005's pricing, when a unit at Viz@Holland was launched for $7xxpsf, then everything is expensive. So it depends on what is one's point of reference.

    On the cemetary issue, personally I am fine with it. In fact when it comes down to Chinese cemetary, the Chinese (our early fore-fathers) are the most particular when it comes to choosing the fengshui of where they bury their ancesters. So the places for Chinese cemetaries are in fact places with good fengshui. The Chinese believe that the location of the ancestral graves will have a profound impact on the prosperity of future generations. In fact, all the prime prime areas now used to be Chinese cemetaries, from Holland to Bt Timah (the whole area in front of Nanyang Primary used to be a cemetary) to Bishan. It's just that they were all cleared between the 70s to the 80s that no one remembered now that they are living on cemetary land. But you look at the house prices and demand there now. Cemetary is not an issue to me personally.


    ==================================================
    No. of Units: 330 (from 7xx psf onwards)
    - 1 bedroom: 418 sqft 30 units
    - 2 bedroom: 823-878 sqft 105 units
    - 2+1 bedroom: 956 sqft 30 units
    - 3 bedroom: 942-1088 sqft 120 units
    - 3(Dual Key) bedroom: 1149 sqft 30 units
    - 4 bedroom: 1366 sqft 15 units

    Indicative psf Price range:
    This is the likely price range subject to changes at Developer’s discretion:
    - 1 bedroom: $900psf - $1000psf
    - 2 bedroom: $780psf - $820 psf
    - 3 bedroom: $750psf - $780psf
    - 4 bedroom: $750psf

    Area, psf and price information provided is tentative and is subject to change.
    Last edited by new2mondrian; 12-06-09 at 09:24.

  22. #52
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    Smile

    The cemetary history of the surrounding region will be forgotten by the future generations once the land is developed and human activities returned to add buzz to the region, just like what happens to Bishan. Furthermore, the high ground where the current cluster of private housing is sitting on around Woodleigh Close is not even cemetary land but once the site of a kampung village.....Just to share some history....the land for the new FCL development was last used by the Singapore National Printers....

  23. #53
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    N2M is right. Parc Mondrian's avg price in 2008 was about $600psf, and for a FH. that's a fair price. $900psf for a LH is not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by miya
    So, you mean that valuation for apts should be lower than condos?
    IMO condo status is preferred (over apt status) .. think this is echoed by another forumer in this thread

    Anyway, I was referring to W28 ... but let's come back to this new LH one ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by gfoo
    N2M is right. Parc Mondrian's avg price in 2008 was about $600psf, and for a FH. that's a fair price. $900psf for a LH is not.
    Well, N2M also pointed out a commonly known fact about chinese in old days believed that finding a good piece FS land is important for burial.

    Unfortunately, u can't turn back the clock & compare like that rite .. since we are now talking about a new launch .. unless the mkt turns another way then maybe the developer will adjust the price?? But definitely, PM being FH is a better choice though not sure about the convenience of location in relation to proximity to MRT (vs. this new launch).

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    Quote Originally Posted by gfoo
    N2M is right. Parc Mondrian's avg price in 2008 was about $600psf, and for a FH. that's a fair price. $900psf for a LH is not.
    That's why there is a rush for Parc Mondrian right now. I was recently offered $100k above bank valuation for my unit, which I turned down. I believe in the long term potential in this place. After all, if I don't want to stay, I can always tenant it out. No lack of tenants once the American International School comes up next door.

  27. #57
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    You see with this how to price it low leh ....

    "Frasers Centrepoint Trust has put in the top bid of nearly S$88 million for a residential site at Woodleigh Close. The price works out to S$270 per square foot per plot ratio.

    Property consultants CB Richard Ellis said based on the top bid of S$270 per square foot plot ratio, the estimated breakeven cost of the new project is around S$650 to S$700 per square foot.

    It expects the units to be sold between S$800 and S$850 per square foot. – CNA/ac

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tan Toh Ping
    Its already not a cemetey from yr 2006.
    Look at bishan as it was once cemetery also, but look at it now...do you think bishan properties are cheap? or ppl still mind so much abt living near that bishan once cemetery area?
    It takes a long time for such past to be forgotten. We are now talking abt a projt to be launched situated infront of a land previously a cemetery.

    The sentiment is totally different.

    There was a posting which even tried to persuade that land prevoiusly cemeteries are good feng shui and properties in it will have good value.

    In that case, I was thinking whether a developer should put his advert as " Bring cheque. Property next to auspicious site. Must buy!"

    haha just a humourous thought....

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    The floor plan is out. . Unfortunately, there is no balcony but just a planter area. Have to see the actual showroom and model

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    Quote Originally Posted by cndomay
    It takes a long time for such past to be forgotten. We are now talking abt a projt to be launched situated infront of a land previously a cemetery.

    The sentiment is totally different.

    There was a posting which even tried to persuade that land prevoiusly cemeteries are good feng shui and properties in it will have good value.

    In that case, I was thinking whether a developer should put his advert as " Bring cheque. Property next to auspicious site. Must buy!"

    haha just a humourous thought....
    ever drive thru Kheam hock rd ? right thru to Siam rd? look at the amount of nice big houses there ..with the grave within 100 m ....

    i almost bought a semi D there in 2006 ... should have ... plans been made to exume the cemetery ..and the landed houses there are now worth alot more than when i saw them in 2006

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