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Thread: Viva (D11, Freehold, Allgreen)

  1. #91
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    Yap but that was like almost 2 years ago. There used to be perception that condos near Newton MRT is higher class and should command a premium vs those closer to Novena MRT. However, as people start to live in PI and enjoy the conveniency of the location of PI, people start to realize that PI is better and more convenient than R@E and NO. Hence, we start to see the transacted prices of PI almost same as R@E and PI. It was like Upper Bukit Timah where once it commanded >$1000 psf but that is already history.

    Quote Originally Posted by andy
    I said there is a belief but here are the facts during the peak of the property boom in 2007.
    Evelyn=> $2345=#11, $1956=#23 , $1934=#19
    Newton 1 => $2000=#23, $1900=#22, $1850=#25
    PI=> $1700=#28, $1699=#29 , $1649=#13

    The caveats now are a little hard to compare since PI has about 20 transactions in Jun, Evelyn= 1 or 2, Newton 1= 4 transactions

  2. #92
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    Many units in R@E is very badly blocked by Trilight coming up soon.

    From the first floor to the highest floor in a few stacks are totally blocked.

    I viewed a unit recently and noted that things are not looking good for R@E for the next 3 years.

    Tenants worry when the piling will start. Buyers can imagine how the big plot of land in front gets built up.

    Thats one of the reasons why prices there are under pressure.

  3. #93
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    that's a tough one, each has its own strong points as PI resident, duckweed had already pointed out. Agree with those points. To me VIVA has an edge naturally since it is newer and better designed and furnished. The hard part is how much a premium over PI should one be willing to pay for VIVA.


    Quote Originally Posted by moneyspinner
    What about PI vs VIVA? Which would you prefer and reasons?

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear
    Yap but that was like almost 2 years ago. There used to be perception that condos near Newton MRT is higher class and should command a premium vs those closer to Novena MRT. However, as people start to live in PI and enjoy the conveniency of the location of PI, people start to realize that PI is better and more convenient than R@E and NO. Hence, we start to see the transacted prices of PI almost same as R@E and PI. It was like Upper Bukit Timah where once it commanded >$1000 psf but that is already history.
    I think it is a little premature to draw this conclusion. It may be so but it would be perhaps more prudent to wait until Trilight and Lviv is launched and compared with Viva and Lincoln Suites in terms of takeup rate and $psf;-)

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by moneyspinner
    What about PI vs VIVA? Which would you prefer and reasons?
    Park Infinia for me... bcos its cheaper ..

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by moneyspinner
    What about PI vs VIVA? Which would you prefer and reasons?
    VIVA for me... Nearer to amenities and much better quality finishing / more efficient layout than PI. Also PI is too huge a development. personally i do not like too many units, 200+ at most

  7. #97
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    I like both

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    Any status on the project? Guess should be more or less sold out by now??????? Seem very quiet leh?

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by DKSG
    Many units in R@E is very badly blocked by Trilight coming up soon.

    From the first floor to the highest floor in a few stacks are totally blocked.

    I viewed a unit recently and noted that things are not looking good for R@E for the next 3 years.

    Tenants worry when the piling will start. Buyers can imagine how the big plot of land in front gets built up.

    Thats one of the reasons why prices there are under pressure.
    i dun mind if there are sellers as nowadays there are developments everywhere surrounding the better located projects. Look at Scott highpark and the Psf transacted...it's like hong kong. but condos in newton and novena will be noise polluted for next 3 years. I hear that the mgmt fees for res@e is pretty low.

    sadly the smaller units are always snapped up......and not many units for sale as most owners hv holding power. sigh

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by DKSG
    Many units in R@E is very badly blocked by Trilight coming up soon.

    From the first floor to the highest floor in a few stacks are totally blocked.

    I viewed a unit recently and noted that things are not looking good for R@E for the next 3 years.

    Tenants worry when the piling will start. Buyers can imagine how the big plot of land in front gets built up.

    Thats one of the reasons why prices there are under pressure.
    i dun mind if there are sellers as nowadays there are developments everywhere surrounding the better located projects. Look at Scott highpark and the Psf transacted...it's like hong kong. but condos in newton and novena will be noise polluted for next 3 years. I hear that the mgmt fees for res@e is pretty low.

    sadly the smaller units are always snapped up......and not many units for sale as most owners hv holding power. sigh

  11. #101
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    the project should be some 90% sold by now.. all 2BRs are sold with only a handful 2+1 (facing afternoon sun and PI) left as of last week. other than this, probably a couple of big units ie. penthses and sky suites remaining which not many people can afford believe the 2BR went for as high as 1750psf

  12. #102
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    I have a question for this development.

    If the buyers bought at $1550 how low can it go assuming a W recovery?
    On the other hand if we assume a V recovery how high can it go?

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmonddd
    Look at Scott highpark and the Psf transacted...it's like hong kong.
    The Scott Highpark units behind overlooking Goodwood greenery are actually quite ok. However I can't believe the front portion is less than 5meters to the next building. Yes the psf is unreal. Has anyone seen the quality?

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by andy
    The Scott Highpark units behind overlooking Goodwood greenery are actually quite ok. However I can't believe the front portion is less than 5meters to the next building. Yes the psf is unreal. Has anyone seen the quality?
    yep...higher psf beoz of its next to newton mrt entrance. exclusivity and small is the in-thing. high density condo is off as the place gets overcrowded. looks at hamilton and urban resort.

  15. #105
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    If W, assume 20% down to 1250psf i guess, similar to what happened to PI from 2007 peak to early 2009 lows.

    If V, the sky's the limit, 2000psf? (that was the price touted as VIVA's sale price when i spoke to some agents in 2007 during the peak, but VIVA was never launched till late 2008 and again in aug 2009).



    Quote Originally Posted by andy
    I have a question for this development.

    If the buyers bought at $1550 how low can it go assuming a W recovery?
    On the other hand if we assume a V recovery how high can it go?

  16. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by bargain hunter
    If W, assume 20% down to 1250psf i guess, similar to what happened to PI from 2007 peak to early 2009 lows.

    If V, the sky's the limit, 2000psf? (that was the price touted as VIVA's sale price when i spoke to some agents in 2007 during the peak, but VIVA was never launched till late 2008 and again in aug 2009).
    $2000psf @ $4/psf rental is only 2.4% gross Is that sustainable? Lowest bank loan is around 1.5% but net rental yield will probably be lower be around 1.5%

  17. #107
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    well, if you are assuming a V shaped recovery, then rentals must rise to $5 or even $6psf to justify 2000psf.

    i am still biased towards a W shaped recovery, obviously i do not think rentals are going anywhere too far above $4psf.



    Quote Originally Posted by andy
    $2000psf @ $4/psf rental is only 2.4% gross Is that sustainable? Lowest bank loan is around 1.5% but net rental yield will probably be lower be around 1.5%

  18. #108
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    I lived in Newton (opposite VIVA) before I moved to Mount Sinai ( next to Trizon) a year ago. I still owned both the properties of which the one in Newton is rented out.

    VIVA is convenient for those who works in Orchard or its surrounding areas and one does not actually even need to drive.

    As for Mount Sinai area, its a more serene and tranquil place to live in with less traffic and noise.

    My office is at Great World CIty. The amazing thing is that it takes me a shorter time to drive from Mount Sinai to my office than from Newton which is a much shorter distance during office and peak hours..

    Being nearer to town does not means its takes a shorter time to travel and also depends where one works or heading to. Mount Sinai area is connected parallelly by 5 main roads ( AYE,Dover, Ulu Pandan, Bukit Timah and PIE) and is very convenient getting to almost anywhere in Spore.

    In conclusion, Newton will likely command a higher rental but not necesssary in its yield ( depends on purchase price ) and possibly attracts more singles expariates while Mount Sinai area is ideal for families and own stay.

  19. #109
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    curious qn: considering you are working at great world city, in deciding to move to mt sinai area rather than say jervois area, what were your major considerations?

    i would think prices are similar or at most a small premium for jervois area, still pretty tranquil, so just curious as to what you considered before deciding to settle in mt sinai area.

    Quote Originally Posted by oilman
    I lived in Newton (opposite VIVA) before I moved to Mount Sinai ( next to Trizon) a year ago. I still owned both the properties of which the one in Newton is rented out.

    VIVA is convenient for those who works in Orchard or its surrounding areas and one does not actually even need to drive.

    As for Mount Sinai area, its a more serene and tranquil place to live in with less traffic and noise.

    My office is at Great World CIty. The amazing thing is that it takes me a shorter time to drive from Mount Sinai to my office than from Newton which is a much shorter distance during office and peak hours..

    Being nearer to town does not means its takes a shorter time to travel and also depends where one works or heading to. Mount Sinai area is connected parallelly by 5 main roads ( AYE,Dover, Ulu Pandan, Bukit Timah and PIE) and is very convenient getting to almost anywhere in Spore.

    In conclusion, Newton will likely command a higher rental but not necesssary in its yield ( depends on purchase price ) and possibly attracts more singles expariates while Mount Sinai area is ideal for families and own stay.

  20. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by bargain hunter
    curious qn: considering you are working at great world city, in deciding to move to mt sinai area rather than say jervois area, what were your major considerations?

    i would think prices are similar or at most a small premium for jervois area, still pretty tranquil, so just curious as to what you considered before deciding to settle in mt sinai area.
    Well for one I prefer only small project like Montview for more privacy and exclusivity purposes. The finishings, view and layout in Montview was one of the best I have seen when I was looking around.

    Besides I also prefer the location in Mount Sinai which is next to Holland V, Rochester Park, Sunset Way, Bio/Fusionpolis a, Dempsey and etc which offers great choices for eating or hanging out .

  21. #111
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    Which roads you take from Montview to Great World City that allow you to reach in much shorter time than from Newton to Great World City?

    Quote Originally Posted by oilman
    I lived in Newton (opposite VIVA) before I moved to Mount Sinai ( next to Trizon) a year ago. I still owned both the properties of which the one in Newton is rented out.

    VIVA is convenient for those who works in Orchard or its surrounding areas and one does not actually even need to drive.

    As for Mount Sinai area, its a more serene and tranquil place to live in with less traffic and noise.

    My office is at Great World CIty. The amazing thing is that it takes me a shorter time to drive from Mount Sinai to my office than from Newton which is a much shorter distance during office and peak hours..

    Being nearer to town does not means its takes a shorter time to travel and also depends where one works or heading to. Mount Sinai area is connected parallelly by 5 main roads ( AYE,Dover, Ulu Pandan, Bukit Timah and PIE) and is very convenient getting to almost anywhere in Spore.

    In conclusion, Newton will likely command a higher rental but not necesssary in its yield ( depends on purchase price ) and possibly attracts more singles expariates while Mount Sinai area is ideal for families and own stay.

  22. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by oilman
    Well for one I prefer only small project like Montview for more privacy and exclusivity purposes. The finishings, view and layout in Montview was one of the best I have seen when I was looking around.

    Besides I also prefer the location in Mount Sinai which is next to Holland V, Rochester Park, Sunset Way, Bio/Fusionpolis a, Dempsey and etc which offers great choices for eating or hanging out .
    Apart from the views from Montview (BR are a little small i feel) should a buyer consider Montview rather than Trizon instead? The $psf seems comparable....

  23. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by bargain hunter
    well, if you are assuming a V shaped recovery, then rentals must rise to $5 or even $6psf to justify 2000psf.

    i am still biased towards a W shaped recovery, obviously i do not think rentals are going anywhere too far above $4psf.
    I am not sure if there is a correlation between rentals and $psf, since rental is basically supply & demand and $psf is more STI & sentiment driven. In fact prices actually drop in Q308 from Q307 whilst rental went up. For newton area, max is around $5+ But I agree that rentals will not go anywhere these 2 years. Recoveries can be anything V, VL, W, Catepillar?

    If rental is not going anywhere, then buyers now must believe in a V or W recovery for capital appreciation, right? On the other hand if it is a VL, the yield of 3% does not change for the buyer assuming rental can be maintained at current level. 3% yield is still better than the 1.5% interest from the bank loan in a VL scenario.

  24. #114
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    well, not correlated in the short term but fundamentals will prevail over the longer term. if rentals do not move up, its hard for prices to go up much further from here on because of the 3% yield. There is also the wild card of interest rates. Many people may have underestimated what a 1% increase in interest rates for their bank loans mean for their monthly payments, let a alone a 2 or even 3% increase in interest rates?


    Quote Originally Posted by andy
    I am not sure if there is a correlation between rentals and $psf, since rental is basically supply & demand and $psf is more STI & sentiment driven. In fact prices actually drop in Q308 from Q307 whilst rental went up. For newton area, max is around $5+ But I agree that rentals will not go anywhere these 2 years. Recoveries can be anything V, VL, W, Catepillar?

    If rental is not going anywhere, then buyers now must believe in a V or W recovery for capital appreciation, right? On the other hand if it is a VL, the yield of 3% does not change for the buyer assuming rental can be maintained at current level. 3% yield is still better than the 1.5% interest from the bank loan in a VL scenario.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bargain hunter
    well, not correlated in the short term but fundamentals will prevail over the longer term. if rentals do not move up, its hard for prices to go up much further from here on because of the 3% yield. There is also the wild card of interest rates. Many people may have underestimated what a 1% increase in interest rates for their bank loans mean for their monthly payments, let a alone a 2 or even 3% increase in interest rates?
    I don't believe rentals will go up unless this recovery gains momentum very soon since the CCR region supply of completed units will accelerate in coming 2 or 3 years. However, prices likely to fluctuate based on sentiments. Interest rate would not jump unless the global economy is clearly out of the woods.

    It would only be a problem when you have high interest rate and high unemployment since banks are generally conservative in the amount they lend compared to the income level.

  26. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear
    Which roads you take from Montview to Great World City that allow you to reach in much shorter time than from Newton to Great World City?
    Ulu Pandan--Botanical--Grange...and its a very nice route with plenty of greenery all along the way...
    Getting to town ( say ION ) from Mount Sinai takes 10-15 minutes at anytime of the day.

    Try driving along Newton and Scotts during peak hours and u will know what i mean..

  27. #117
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    That is very surprising. Looking at the map, Newton (e.g. Park Infinia) to GWC (Great World City) is about 2.5km, while Montview to GWC is about 7.5km. If somebody drive from Park Infinia to GWC at average 30 km/h, then another person to drive from Montview to arrive at same time or earlier at GWC must travel at average of >90km/h? Is this calculation correct or I miss something?

    Quote Originally Posted by oilman
    Ulu Pandan--Botanical--Grange...and its a very nice route with plenty of greenery all along the way...
    Getting to town ( say ION ) from Mount Sinai takes 10-15 minutes at anytime of the day.

    Try driving along Newton and Scotts during peak hours and u will know what i mean..

  28. #118
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    my personal feel is also it is still definitely faster to drive from newton circus to GWC than from Mt. Sinai, no matter how bad the peak hour traffic jam is.


    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear
    That is very surprising. Looking at the map, Newton (e.g. Park Infinia) to GWC (Great World City) is about 2.5km, while Montview to GWC is about 7.5km. If somebody drive from Park Infinia to GWC at average 30 km/h, then another person to drive from Montview to arrive at same time or earlier at GWC must travel at average of >90km/h? Is this calculation correct or I miss something?

  29. #119
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    its to do with perception. might take longer but feels shorter cos it is smoother and a more pleasant drive.

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    I don't know but I have a feel that VIVA units will appreciate in value faster than those in Mount Sinai/Holland area. Opinion?

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