Trevista (D12, 99 years leasehold, NTUC Choice Homes)

[East Coast Boy]

Buyers ignore ghost month
Toa Payoh condo draws keen interest; developer releases extra units



Buyers were out in force on Friday at the preview of Trevista, a new 590-unit condominium in Toa Payoh, a traditional heartland area. -- ST PHOTO: MUGILAN RAJASEGERAN
WHAT ghost month? The traditional lull in home-buying activity during the Hungry Ghost month has been swept aside amid the current property market frenzy.

Buyers were out in force on Friday at the preview of Trevista, a new 590-unit condominium in Toa Payoh, a traditional heartland area. A queue had formed at least 20 minutes before the showflat doors opened at 2pm. By 5pm, all 210 units released for sale had been snapped up by buyers.

Developer NTUC Choice Homes had said it would release just those units for sale this weekend at an average price of $898 per sq ft (psf). However, the response was so strong that it released another 190 units at higher prices just after 8pm, said a spokesman. She could not say how much higher the prices were.

Of the 210 units, the two-bedders averaged $830,000 while the three- and four-bedroom units averaged $1.065 million and $1.43 million respectively under the normal payment scheme. Owner-occupiers were eyeing the bigger units while investors were mostly keen on the small units.

The 99-year leasehold Trevista, within walking distance of both Braddell and Toa Payoh MRT stations, has 44 one-bedroom units, from 463 sq ft to 721 sq ft. Other units are 861 sq ft to 2,002 sq ft.

The market was expecting big crowds at Trevista as it is the first condo to be launched in the mature Toa Payoh estate since 1996. ERA and CBRE are marketing agents. There was talk that plenty of blank cheques were collected prior to the preview. Some agents expect a sell-out.

It appears that the Hungry Ghost month from Aug 20 to Sept 18 is not an issue for these buyers even though many Taoist households in Toa Payoh burn incense during the month in the belief that this will appease the spirits. Many buyers would have been from the local area.

The property market traditionally goes into a lull during this period as some Chinese consider it inauspicious to buy a house at this time. But in recent years, practicality has often overridden superstition, agents say.

'Some developers may want to wait until the end of the ghost month to launch but those with launch-ready projects will want to capitalise on the buying momentum,' said Savills Residential director Phylicia Ang. 'There are a lot of young buyers who are not very superstitious.'

Also, when the market is slow, buyers may stick to their superstitious beliefs but when the market is hot and a good investment opportunity presents itself, they will not hesitate to jump in, lest they miss the boat, explained Ms Ang.

[xebay11]

Smart people, ditch superstition, go for tangible profit.

[cndomay]

Smart people, ditch superstition, go for tangible profit.

how much tangible profit are these buyers expecting. example, in TOP time can the value rise 8 - 10% ?

who are the main buyers? young ones ( below 35 years old ) or hdb upgraders ( 45 and above ).

[BenziT]

Those who bought ARTE must be smiling all the way

[cheerful]

yalor ... FH some more & a better located RCR nearer at the inner fringe ...

[fairlady04]

Passed by an hour ago.. no queues.. though a lot of agents.. strange? last night's 190 units all gone too? how much did prices go up by? Straits Times didnt say. anyone know?

[azeoprop]

I think most people aim for cheaper 1 and 2 bedroom units, or those low floor cannot make it kind of cheap 3 bedders. Those over million dollars units should be slower to sell. Thats why when those cheap ones gone, Q also disappear?

[alamak]

yalor ... FH some more & a better located RCR nearer at the inner fringe ...

The Arte - not so cramped and squeezy, less than half no of unit ,more prestigious , More reputable CDL vs NTUC choice homes. NTUC Only suckers - own people review first , those who NTUC members who bgt must thinking gio tio. Silly Kuku can get 55,000 link points hore

[Honesty]

I think most people aim for cheaper 1 and 2 bedroom units, or those low floor cannot make it kind of cheap 3 bedders. Those over million dollars units should be slower to sell. Thats why when those cheap ones gone, Q also disappear?

Right, usually the smaller and "cheaper" units were sold out during the launch.

Now then I know that why the report in the ST said so many so many units sold for the months. Infact most of them are those small units.

This nos of small units sold for the months give the wrong impression and wrong indication to the market have improved, and people are rushing to buy.

I can't imagine come 2012, so many units are bought at $900 to $1000 psf for the mass market condo. How many sold now, will be how many TOP then. THINK!!!!!!!!!

How and who they want to sell to.....

Confirm wrong investment ...

Poor thing...

[Condorich]

Latent demand in Toa Payoh for the HDB upgraders... buy a small unit 1 or 2 bedders and rent out their HDB later on... However, the Arte is definitely a much better choice.

Next group are the new PR's.

Finally... the specuvestors.... all these 3 groups should make up at least 20% for any area.... Don't forget any special deals for NTUC affiliates.

Strong demand will be reflected in any project which is at least 75% sold... after 1 month.

[cndomay]

Assuming about 8,000 pte prop at ave $800K per unit has been bought this year, that's 6.4 bn committed. How deep is sg's pockets....how many more billions before fatique set in...hahha

[ulrich76]

If I had to choose between Arte and Trevista, I would not choose Arte. Too far from MRT and amenities, not to mention the noisy PIE. After Arte TOPs and give it 5 years, it will be just one of the many many Balestier Road condos selling at $750psf at most. Trevista is in Toa Payoh with not many condos. Look at Trellis Towers selling price. Selling at 1000spf after so many years. Given it is FH and commands a premium, this means that even after Trevista TOPs and ages, it should still fetch at least $800-$900psf comfortably.

Latent demand in Toa Payoh for the HDB upgraders... buy a small unit 1 or 2 bedders and rent out their HDB later on... However, the Arte is definitely a much better choice.

Next group are the new PR's.

Finally... the specuvestors.... all these 3 groups should make up at least 20% for any area.... Don't forget any special deals for NTUC affiliates.

Strong demand will be reflected in any project which is at least 75% sold... after 1 month.

[xebay11]

If I had to choose between Arte and Trevista, I would not choose Arte. Too far from MRT and amenities, not to mention the noisy PIE. After Arte TOPs and give it 5 years, it will be just one of the many many Balestier Road condos selling at $750psf at most. Trevista is in Toa Payoh with not many condos. Look at Trellis Towers selling price. Selling at 1000spf after so many years. Given it is FH and commands a premium, this means that even after Trevista TOPs and ages, it should still fetch at least $800-$900psf comfortably.

Both Arte and Trevista are poor choices if you ask me. Arte is just like you said, become one of the many FH condos in Balestier. Trevista, once you get tired of the facilities in five years time the high maintenace costs becomes a burden, might as well just pack your bags and move down the street to 40 storey HDB, still have stunning views, breezy etc. Trellis because of FH nature in TP is a different beast altogether, so worth paying the premium for.

[amk]

Both Arte and Trevista are poor choices if you ask me

even though I'm not keen in this area , if given Arte and Trevista, I will not choose Arte. Arte is really nothing more than a glossed up Balestier condo. Very inconvenient to everything. Trevista at least has a better location.

I can't imagine come 2012, so many units are bought at $900 to $1000 psf for the mass market condo. How many sold now, will be how many TOP then. THINK!!!!!!!!!

How and who they want to sell to.....

Your reasoning is too simplistic. 1st of all didn't you read most of these buyers are HDB addresses for self stay ? Most of them are riding on the high valuation price of their HDB to upgrade to condo. Come 2012 many of them will simply move in and stay. 2nd you have to start to accept 900 level kind of pricing for near town mature estates. Land price in TPY is already 460, plus construction cost 270, the cost of a project is 730. I know you keep on saying "that's developer's problem", but argument like this is just plain self denial. The recent Seletar land parcel sold for 280 psf. You want to guess what the final selling price of a project will be ? I give u a proxy. Optima's land cost was 280 too! You will say , what, 800 for this ulu area ? Look it's not up to you. The market dictates the price.

You can also have a read at the recent Citi/UBS report if you have access. I'm not agreeing to all they say. But what they listed about income level in Singapore, population growth, etc, are quite interesting. Worth an intelligent read.

Centro is a weird FEO project, should probably be removed from all statistics. (same for Silversea). The Trevista 900 pricing is a more representative of the current market.

[dunatos]

even though I'm not keen in this area , if given Arte and Trevista, I will not choose Arte. Arte is really nothing more than a glossed up Balestier condo. Very inconvenient to everything. Trevista at least has a better location.


Your reasoning is too simplistic. 1st of all didn't you read most of these buyers are HDB addresses for self stay ? Most of them are riding on the high valuation price of their HDB to upgrade to condo. Come 2012 many of them will simply move in and stay. 2nd you have to start to accept 900 level kind of pricing for near town mature estates. Land price in TPY is already 460, plus construction cost 270, the cost of a project is 730. I know you keep on saying "that's developer's problem", but argument like this is just plain self denial. The recent Seletar land parcel sold for 280 psf. You want to guess what the final selling price of a project will be ? I give u a proxy. Optima's land cost was 280 too! You will say , what, 800 for this ulu area ? Look it's not up to you. The market dictates the price.

You can also have a read at the recent Citi/UBS report if you have access. I'm not agreeing to all they say. But what they listed about income level in Singapore, population growth, etc, are quite interesting. Worth an intelligent read.

Centro is a weird FEO project, should probably be removed from all statistics. (same for Silversea). The Trevista 900 pricing is a more representative of the current market.

I quite agree with what is said here.
The market has a lot of say.
Then analysts try to analyze and analyze.

[Honesty]

even though I'm not keen in this area , if given Arte and Trevista, I will not choose Arte. Arte is really nothing more than a glossed up Balestier condo. Very inconvenient to everything. Trevista at least has a better location.


Your reasoning is too simplistic. 1st of all didn't you read most of these buyers are HDB addresses for self stay ? Most of them are riding on the high valuation price of their HDB to upgrade to condo. Come 2012 many of them will simply move in and stay. 2nd you have to start to accept 900 level kind of pricing for near town mature estates. Land price in TPY is already 460, plus construction cost 270, the cost of a project is 730. I know you keep on saying "that's developer's problem", but argument like this is just plain self denial. The recent Seletar land parcel sold for 280 psf. You want to guess what the final selling price of a project will be ? I give u a proxy. Optima's land cost was 280 too! You will say , what, 800 for this ulu area ? Look it's not up to you. The market dictates the price.

You can also have a read at the recent Citi/UBS report if you have access. I'm not agreeing to all they say. But what they listed about income level in Singapore, population growth, etc, are quite interesting. Worth an intelligent read.

Centro is a weird FEO project, should probably be removed from all statistics. (same for Silversea). The Trevista 900 pricing is a more representative of the current market.

Thank you for your reasoning, I always wonder where do these HDB upgraders got the money from?

If most of them buying for home stay, then they need at least 3 rms or bigger and I really think it is not affordable. as it may cost them something like 1.2 million. Take it that they sell their HDB at $500,000 for their 4 rms flat, they still need to pay the diff. of $700,000.

For $700,000 loan , they need to service about $3000 to $4000 per month. This is no joke.

Then by 2012, if it happen as what you predict, the HDB prices will drop, as there will many of these upgraders selling their HDB together at the same time and they may not get a good price for it.

Unless our wages increase accordingly to the level we can afford $900 psf for home stay, and is not that I am self denial, it is the fact that how many of us can afford to service the loan of $4000 every month.

Not every land the developer tender at the price they wanted and we have to pay them accordingly when the development is builded. If that is the case, we will be poorer by servicing the loan and the developer will get richer.

This sure win business, I think anyone got money would like to be a developer.

Where to find such business that have a big group of kiasu customers.

Not only the population growth and we need to pay so much $$$, is the wages that we earned make it affordable.

[cl0ver]

i think a HDB upgrader would mostly come from 5rm or Exec.
4 roomers would normally upgrade to 5 room HDB!

also think there are a lot of dual income families in Singapore...
You can tell by the continued low birth rate.
most couples these days are smart savvy....
they will first buy a HDB when they are young and then sell it after 5 yrs for a profit and upgrade.
HDB prices appear to be holding the past few years...

The GenX couples nowadays probably take in 15k a month combined income.

[ipoh72]

there will be abt 12000 hdb upgraders selling their flat then, it will be interesting if there isnt so many buyers, and the cycle starts again.

Thank you for your reasoning, I always wonder where do these HDB upgraders got the money from?

If most of them buying for home stay, then they need at least 3 rms or bigger and I really think it is not affordable. as it may cost them something like 1.2 million. Take it that they sell their HDB at $500,000 for their 4 rms flat, they still need to pay the diff. of $700,000.

For $700,000 loan , they need to service about $3000 to $4000 per month. This is no joke.

Then by 2012, if it happen as what you predict, the HDB prices will drop, as there will many of these upgraders selling their HDB together at the same time and they may not get a good price for it.

Unless our wages increase accordingly to the level we can afford $900 psf for home stay, and is not that I am self denial, it is the fact that how many of us can afford to service the loan of $4000 every month.

Not every land the developer tender at the price they wanted and we have to pay them accordingly when the development is builded. If that is the case, we will be poorer by servicing the loan and the developer will get richer.

This sure win business, I think anyone got money would like to be a developer.

Where to find such business that have a big group of kiasu customers.

Not only the population growth and we need to pay so much $$$, is the wages that we earned make it affordable.

[xebay11]

The GenX couples nowadays probably take in 15k a month combined income.

This kind of information is not good for employers or foreign investors, they will think that our workforce is too expensive and not competitive.

[cl0ver]

This kind of information is not good for employers or foreign investors, they will think that our workforce is too expensive and not competitive.

thats why they now prefer to hire mainlanders..

[yowetan]

i think a HDB upgrader would mostly come from 5rm or Exec.
4 roomers would normally upgrade to 5 room HDB!

also think there are a lot of dual income families in Singapore...
You can tell by the continued low birth rate.
most couples these days are smart savvy....
they will first buy a HDB when they are young and then sell it after 5 yrs for a profit and upgrade.
HDB prices appear to be holding the past few years...

The GenX couples nowadays probably take in 15k a month combined income.

Are you sure the GenX are so affluent nowadays????

[Douk]

Ever wonder how the analysts know the HDB upgraders are buying for own stay or not?

I think they probably based on the kind of loan that these HDB upgrader take up, first property or 2nd property. and how many will declare the house as investment property (2nd property), which also charge a higher interest rate.

How many upgraders really want to squeeze into a 2 bedroom tiny apartment, if they are used to the 5rm or larger flat.

so it is likely that they are buying the property as investment, and this will eventually contribute to the oversupply 2 years down.

[cl0ver]

are you shock?
GenX refers to mostly babies born in the 70s so they must be in their mid 30s to early 40s.
with 10yrs working experience, i think its average to quote that amount.
please note its a COMBINED amount

[cl0ver]

Ever wonder how the analysts know the HDB upgraders are buying for own stay or not?

I think they probably based on the kind of loan that these HDB upgrader take up, first property or 2nd property. and how many will declare the house as investment property (2nd property), which also charge a higher interest rate.

How many upgraders really want to squeeze into a 2 bedroom tiny apartment, if they are used to the 5rm or larger flat.

so it is likely that they are buying the property as investment, and this will eventually contribute to the oversupply 2 years down.

they look at the address of your IC.

[xebay11]

thats why they now prefer to hire mainlanders..

Then how the Genx couple going to service their huge loan?

[teddybear]

1. Simple, not as complicated as you mentioned. They get it from URA (not available for free).
2. Nowsdays, many couples either have no kid or 1 or at most 2 kids. The savings from rising another extra kid is channeled to private property where the environment is much better, maintenance is better, and there are facilities to enjoy. I believe they are OK with smaller size as I know of many such families (couple+2 young kids) who are comfortable with staying in a <1000 sqft 2+S units (rather than living in a bigger 5 room HDB flats).

Ever wonder how the analysts know the HDB upgraders are buying for own stay or not?

I think they probably based on the kind of loan that these HDB upgrader take up, first property or 2nd property. and how many will declare the house as investment property (2nd property), which also charge a higher interest rate.

How many upgraders really want to squeeze into a 2 bedroom tiny apartment, if they are used to the 5rm or larger flat.

so it is likely that they are buying the property as investment, and this will eventually contribute to the oversupply 2 years down.

[Douk]

ok, they got it from URA. But how does URA knows whether these group are buying for own stay or investment ?

It has to be based on the loan type right ?

1. Simple, not as complicated as you mentioned. They get it from URA (not available for free).
2. Nowsdays, many couples either have no kid or 1 or at most 2 kids. The savings from rising another extra kid is channeled to private property where the environment is much better, maintenance is better, and there are facilities to enjoy. I believe they are OK with smaller size as I know of many such families (couple+2 young kids) who are comfortable with staying in a <1000 sqft 2+S units (rather than living in a bigger 5 room HDB flats).

[cl0ver]

why do you think it is huge?
lets say couple buys HDB for 300k and fully pay for it in 5-8yrs.
they manage to sell it at 500k in current market.
they "upgrade" to a 1mil condo and only have to take a 500k loan.

they are now in the same boat as those new younger couples aiming for those high end HDBs like City View, Natura, etc which goes for around 600-700k.

the difference is, GenX couple probably earns double the income ceiling of GenY which is capped by HDB to qualify for those units.

[Honesty]

there will be abt 12000 hdb upgraders selling their flat then, it will be interesting if there isnt so many buyers, and the cycle starts again.

Ya, you are right.

If everyone got 2 or more houses, do we really have so many buyers to buy from you???

Or tenant to rent your house???

Buyers please THINK!!!!!

Don't get burn!!!!!!

When people rush to buy.....is time to get out....NOW!!!!!!!!!!

[mezz72sg]

why do you think it is huge?
lets say couple buys HDB for 300k and fully pay for it in 5-8yrs.
they manage to sell it at 500k in current market.
they "upgrade" to a 1mil condo and only have to take a 500k loan.

they are now in the same boat as those new younger couples aiming for those high end HDBs like City View, Natura, etc which goes for around 600-700k.

the difference is, GenX couple probably earns double the income ceiling of GenY which is capped by HDB to qualify for those units.

300k payoff in 5 yrs means 5k/mth without counting interest.
Totally impossible for new couple since they buy new means combined income is below 8k. below 8k how to afford 5k instalment??

by the ways, to afford a 1m house, combined income should be at least 12k/mth with loan @80%.