How is the rental market now?

[Property_Owner]

I dun feel it's picking up yet.
Any comments?

[sfwoo]

A friend's lease is ending in 2 months.
Her landlord is asking for $3600 pm.
She is currently paying $2950 pm.
So, she is going to move out.

Agent say still got a lot of clients/tenants, just that some people may not like them, many considerations. Eg. some people rather leave unit empty then rent to certain nationalities.

[sfwoo]

I think it pays to be patient for landlords.
Because potential tenants are looking for a bargain all the time.
3 bedroom nice condo, 1238 sqft, got people offer me $1600 pm last year.
Agents also dun really bother, they just want to close deal and move on.
Time is money for the agents.

[silver023]

Rents seemed to have headed further north over the past few weeks.

$2500 for a 2 bedder apartment/condo seems like a decent budget early May. But now, can't get peanuts.

There was previously a 2 bedroom unit in One Amber asking $2500, now $4000 (probably coz more units TOP)

[august]

no idea leh ......

[BillyCutie]

Certainly better. I was leasing my 2 TOP units this year. The going was slow around Dec-Feb. Was able to leased out my 2+1 at $4k. Followed by my 3+1 just last month at much better rate. And guess what? I have been receiving enquiries ever since.

[bargain hunter]

maybe need to differentiate between CCR and non CCR because there are more completions coming up in CCR in H2 2010 and 2011 while there are more units completing in other regions only from 2012? Also, my guess is there are more units in CCR which will be up for rent when completed while there are more units for own stay for the other 2 regions.

So perhaps rent is picking up more in non CCR while CCR is remaining more flattish but still with an upside bias.

I dun feel it's picking up yet.
Any comments?

[moneyspinner]

Certainly better. I was leasing my 2 TOP units this year. The going was slow around Dec-Feb. Was able to leased out my 2+1 at $4k. Followed by my 3+1 just last month at much better rate. And guess what? I have been receiving enquiries ever since.

To get a better feel, are your units CCR or OCR?

[BillyCutie]

Mine are in D5.

[Property_Owner]

maybe need to differentiate between CCR and non CCR because there are more completions coming up in CCR in H2 2010 and 2011 while there are more units completing in other regions only from 2012? Also, my guess is there are more units in CCR which will be up for rent when completed while there are more units for own stay for the other 2 regions.

So perhaps rent is picking up more in non CCR while CCR is remaining more flattish but still with an upside bias.

My CCR just TOP, still vacant...

[moneyspinner]

My CCR just TOP, still vacant...

Guess it may take up to about 6 months to land a suitable tenant. Again all depends on the condition of the rental market and the inflow of expats. Normally new condos are easier to find tenants.

[proud owner]

Certainly better. I was leasing my 2 TOP units this year. The going was slow around Dec-Feb. Was able to leased out my 2+1 at $4k. Followed by my 3+1 just last month at much better rate. And guess what? I have been receiving enquiries ever since.

thats good

D5 great

i have been telling people since last yr that D15 is better than D5 and taht D15 rental is good .. now that you have proof ..i am glad i dont have to argue again ..

D5 rental is really good

[proud owner]

My CCR just TOP, still vacant...

i think the mentality of many tenants now is this ...

a 2000 sqft in D9/10/11 asking say 8-12k

a 2000 sqft in non CCR asking 5-7k

with a differnce of 3-5k a mth .. they take taxi ..still save a lot of money ..and non ccr has all the cheap food, etc

3-5k savings .. can use that to rent a car also ...

this is what i udnerstand from an engineer expat .. in fact his group of expat friends all renting non CCR ..and huge unit ...

[jlrx]

My CCR just TOP, still vacant...

New condos usually take quite some time to get tenants because one shot there are so many units TOP at the same time. Last time one took me 6 months and another 9 months.

On the other hand, most of my condos are old and easily rented out. Within one week of telling the agents to start looking!

Either my agents are super efficient or maybe I'm not very demanding in terms of rental as I'm more concerned about capital appreciation than rentals.

My properties were bought very cheap and the rentals could all cover the interest installments. I was quite happy there were extra few thousand dollars every month leftover after paying the installments.

I saved up the money so that I could buy more properties. However, I recently just bought another property but the rental is again higher than the installment. So I am getting more and more "pocket money" which I don't know what to do.

I'm actually not touching my income at all to service any of the installments!

I think the "problem" (if you can call this a problem) is that the SOR and SIBOR rates are very very low.

[teddybear]

And then they keep complaining that when they need the taxi during peak hours, where are all of them? Then they start to suan Singapore about first world country with 3rd world taxi service blah blah blah and how to attract expats like them?
In Singapore, if taxi can be relied on when you really need one, the cow can climb the trees.

i think the mentality of many tenants now is this ...

a 2000 sqft in D9/10/11 asking say 8-12k

a 2000 sqft in non CCR asking 5-7k

with a differnce of 3-5k a mth .. they take taxi ..still save a lot of money ..and non ccr has all the cheap food, etc

3-5k savings .. can use that to rent a car also ...

this is what i udnerstand from an engineer expat .. in fact his group of expat friends all renting non CCR ..and huge unit ...

[proud owner]

New condos usually take quite some time to get tenants because one shot there are so many units TOP at the same time. Last time one took me 6 months and another 9 months.

On the other hand, most of my condos are old and easily rented out. Within one week of telling the agents to start looking!

Either my agents are super efficient or maybe I'm not very demanding in terms of rental as I'm more concerned about capital appreciation than rentals.

My properties were bought very cheap and the rentals could all cover the interest installments. I was quite happy there were extra few thousand dollars every month leftover after paying the installments.

I saved up the money so that I could buy more properties. However, I recently just bought another property but the rental is again higher than the installment. So I am getting more and more "pocket money" which I don't know what to do.

I'm actually not touching my income at all to service any of the installments!

I think the "problem" (if you can call this a problem) is that the SOR and SIBOR rates are very very low.

so what is your advice to owners whose units just TOPped? shud they wait for 3-9mths for the right tenant that will pay their high asking price ?

or shud they lower their expectation ?

bear in mind, some owners have more than a few units to go ...

also come 2012-13 there will be a lot more projects going TOP .. what should one do or prepare themselves if they have units in those projects taht will TOP between 2012-15 ?

will rental continue to be suppressed ?

current situation is like this ..>
in a project of say 50 units .. 1 managed to rent out at 10k,
the remaining 49 non owner stay units will also be asking 10k .. is that reasonable?

people will then post article saying rental mkt picked up ..quoting rental at project XXX achieved 10k .. but refuse to acknowledge taht 49 otehr units are out there looking for their 10k or more tenants ..

i believe there are many such projects now ..and more to come ..

so dont say i try to play down the mkt .. but the truth remains .. rental is not picking up fast enuff ...

many wil argue ..owners can afford to leave them empty ..true ..
so let them be happy leaving it empty

but for those who really need to have their unit rented out .. those articles on rental pick up is totally misleading

[proud owner]

And then they keep complaining that when they need the taxi during peak hours, where are all of them? Then they start to suan Singapore about first world country with 3rd world taxi service blah blah blah and how to attract expats like them?
In Singapore, if taxi can be relied on when you really need one, the cow can climb the trees.

no leh ...they all lease a car with the savings ...

[devilplate]

can easily find 3-4k tenants...more den 5k pm takes some time to let out.

i am actually surprised those MM studios CCR/RCR with rental 2.5-4k r easily rented out....within 1-2wks

last time 2bedders easily rent out...now 2bedder goto compete with those MM studios..

[teddybear]

This problem is good to have

However, when the SOR and SIBOR rates are turning very very high....this will be a BIG problem

New condos usually take quite some time to get tenants because one shot there are so many units TOP at the same time. Last time one took me 6 months and another 9 months.

On the other hand, most of my condos are old and easily rented out. Within one week of telling the agents to start looking!

Either my agents are super efficient or maybe I'm not very demanding in terms of rental as I'm more concerned about capital appreciation than rentals.

My properties were bought very cheap and the rentals could all cover the interest installments. I was quite happy there were extra few thousand dollars every month leftover after paying the installments.

I saved up the money so that I could buy more properties. However, I recently just bought another property but the rental is again higher than the installment. So I am getting more and more "pocket money" which I don't know what to do.

I'm actually not touching my income at all to service any of the installments!

I think the "problem" (if you can call this a problem) is that the SOR and SIBOR rates are very very low.

[devilplate]

This problem is good to have

However, when the SOR and SIBOR rates are turning very very high....this will be a BIG problem

u mean stagflation? likely? explain?

[proud owner]

can easily find 3-4k tenants...more den 5k pm takes some time to let out.

i am actually surprised those MM studios CCR/RCR with rental 2.5-4k r easily rented out....within 1-2wks

last time 2bedders easily rent out...now 2bedder goto compete with those MM studios..

thanks to those who bought the high end project

when one paid 2000 psf for a unit ..he expects xxx pct return on the rental .. but we all know chances are majority will be disappointed ..

seeing those in CCR asking xxx pct return ... those in non ccr start asking also yyy pct ...yyy<xxx

so when u go down the line ... 2 bedroom rental now becomes expensive for single renters .. so they rent mm unit lor

[devilplate]

high budget tenants r getting scarce...hopefully situation will improves

if urs 3bedder in CCR and expecting 6-10k rental...may take months.

dun forget ...still goto compete with HDB...hehe...last time lesser HDB flats up for rental b4 they relax the subletting rules

[proud owner]

high budget tenants r getting scarce...hopefully situation will improves

if urs 3bedder in CCR and expecting 6-10k rental...may take months.

dun forget ...still goto compete with HDB...hehe...last time lesser HDB flats up for rental b4 they relax the subletting rules

in short ...with the supplies coming up in the next few years .. rental will not pick up .. if they do, it still lags the price ...

there will be one or two successful cases ..where owners find a very good rental return for their units ...


but in geneeral ..majority will breakeven .. or small profit

[devilplate]

aiya..to me oversupply story is crapppy

every bull run sure got ppl say oversupply in few yrs time...i tink nid jlrx to dig out all the newspaper cuttings ...haha

[proud owner]

aiya..to me oversupply story is crapppy

every bull run sure got ppl say oversupply in few yrs time...i tink nid jlrx to dig out all the newspaper cuttings ...haha

when every project launched is sold out where got over supply ???



it is individual who is oversupplied ..

imagine u own 5 units ...stay in one and try to rent out 4


so to me ... there is an oversupply in that sense

[devilplate]

somebody >40 how ...severely oversupply?

[jlrx]

so what is your advice to owners whose units just TOPped? shud they wait for 3-9mths for the right tenant that will pay their high asking price ?

or shud they lower their expectation ?

bear in mind, some owners have more than a few units to go ...

also come 2012-13 there will be a lot more projects going TOP .. what should one do or prepare themselves if they have units in those projects taht will TOP between 2012-15 ?

will rental continue to be suppressed ?

current situation is like this ..>
in a project of say 50 units .. 1 managed to rent out at 10k,
the remaining 49 non owner stay units will also be asking 10k .. is that reasonable?

people will then post article saying rental mkt picked up ..quoting rental at project XXX achieved 10k .. but refuse to acknowledge taht 49 otehr units are out there looking for their 10k or more tenants ..

i believe there are many such projects now ..and more to come ..

so dont say i try to play down the mkt .. but the truth remains .. rental is not picking up fast enuff ...

many wil argue ..owners can afford to leave them empty ..true ..
so let them be happy leaving it empty

but for those who really need to have their unit rented out .. those articles on rental pick up is totally misleading

If there is a transacted rental at $10k, then that is the price.

Just like in the stock market, when a price is being transacted then that is the price.

Is the tenant who paid $10k rental crazy when there are 49 units empty? Why doesn't he go around to the other 49 units and negotiate a lower price?

Anyway your example of 1 rented vs 49 empty is an extreme one. Usually a significant portion of every development is owner-occupied but the owners hadn't moved in yet so the developments look empty.

At any point in time, say year 20XX, there will always be lots of supply coming up in 20XX + 3. This is a perennial situation.

I remember back in 2008 many people in this forum were saying that there will be many units TOP in 2010 (sold during the boom days in 2007) and the market will collapse just in time when the IRs open.

As it turned out the market (both sale and rental) did collapse in 2008/9 but due to the Lehman Brothers crisis and not too many projects TOP.

Then today, which incidentally happens to be the doom year 2010, people start packing the showrooms like refugees grabbing humanitarian aid and developers start bidding record prices for land. Are all these people crazy?

It's like the doomsayers who predict that the world will end in 20XX and then when it doesn't end (as usual), the end date will be pushed back 3 years.

Just look at some of the posts in this very forum during the crazy days when people could post "Unregistered".

Where to get tenants these days? Many of my expats friend had already bought their own properties early last year. Situations will get worse from here when massive number of units obtain TOP from 2010 onwards.

Yes greedy owners will be left licking their wounds.

You are wrong, who say cannot rent out. The mosquitoes, cockroaches, rats and spiders need a place to stay. Please do not deprive them.

[proud owner]

If there is a transacted rental at $10k, then that is the price.

Just like in the stock market, when a price is being transacted then that is the price.

Is the tenant who paid $10k rental crazy when there are 49 units empty? Why doesn't he go around to the other 49 units and negotiate a lower price?

Anyway your example of 1 rented vs 49 empty is an extreme one. Usually a significant portion of every development is owner-occupied but the owners hadn't moved in yet so the developments look empty.

At any point in time, say year 20XX, there will always be lots of supply coming up in 20XX + 3. This is a perennial situation.

I remember back in 2008 many people in this forum were saying that there will be many units TOP in 2010 (sold during the boom days in 2007) and the market will collapse just in time when the IRs open.

As it turned out the market (both sale and rental) did collapse in 2008/9 but due to the Lehman Brothers crisis and not too many projects TOP.

Then today, which incidentally happens to be the doom year 2010, people start packing the showrooms like refugees grabbing humanitarian aid and developers start bidding record prices for land. Are all these people crazy?

It's like the doomsayers who predict that the world will end in 20XX and then when it doesn't end (as usual), the end date will be pushed back 3 years.

Just look at some of the posts in this very forum during the crazy days when people could post "Unregistered".

so based on that ..once transacted ..the price stays ?

so Altaa ( whatever the spelling ... one unit sold at 3000 psf ... how come still have others asking for much lower psf ?

yes my example is extreme ...

so you still havent told me what i shud do ..

if i have 5 units waiting to be rented out .. each mortage say 4k amth ..

for every mth unrented .. i lugi 20k 6mth will be 120k cannot tahan leh ..
meanwhile my neighbour lucky ...managed to find a tenant for 6k .. shud i wait ?? or shud i just lower to 5k ?

if like u said 6k now is the bench mark ..should i die die stick to 6k ?

and if i lower to 5k will the otehr owners humtum me ? will they then lower theirs to 4k ?

point remains i cannot tahan to hold for too long .. so how ???

[jlrx]

so based on that ..once transacted ..the price stays ?

so Altaa ( whatever the spelling ... one unit sold at 3000 psf ... how come still have others asking for much lower psf ?

yes my example is extreme ...

so you still havent told me what i shud do ..

if i have 5 units waiting to be rented out .. each mortage say 4k amth ..

for every mth unrented .. i lugi 20k 6mth will be 120k cannot tahan leh ..
meanwhile my neighbour lucky ...managed to find a tenant for 6k .. shud i wait ?? or shud i just lower to 5k ?

if like u said 6k now is the bench mark ..should i die die stick to 6k ?

and if i lower to 5k will the otehr owners humtum me ? will they then lower theirs to 4k ?

point remains i cannot tahan to hold for too long .. so how ???

Why do you worry about so many hypothetical scenarios?

The market will take care of itself.

If a person can hold 5 units, then he should have the ability to hold.

If a person can hold 40+ units, like Property_Owner, I believe he should have the ability to hold (after all he can afford to "contribute" one Aston Martin to Marina Bay Sands).

In my case, even in the worst case scenario that all my tenants leave (which is quite unlikely), the total monthly installments make up less a small fraction of my income.

Which addresses the concern raised by teddybear below.

This problem is good to have

However, when the SOR and SIBOR rates are turning very very high....this will be a BIG problem

[proud owner]

Why do you worry about so many hypothetical scenarios?

The market will take care of itself.

If a person can hold 5 units, then he should have the ability to hold.

If a person can hold 40+ units, like Property_Owner, I believe he should have the ability to hold (after all he can afford to "contribute" one Aston Martin to Marina Bay Sands).

In my case, even in the worst case scenario that all my tenants leave (which is quite unlikely), the total monthly installments make up less a small fraction of my income.

Which addresses the concern raised by teddybear below.

i bought 5 units becos i have enuff money for 20 pct down payment and 80 pct loan mah ...

and in the forum and papers all say rental picking up mah

so if i can rent them all out i dont have to worry right ?

but now cannot leh ..


all these are not real ..
of course i dont have 5 units waiting to be rented out

but i am suer there are people out there in the exact scenario i just painted ...


so let them be lah not my problem ...