Nearly sold my condo...

[sfwoo]

I nearly sold my condo...cheque in front of me for 1%...offer to purchase signed by buyers...Passed the draft of option to purchase to lawyer...

Lawyer jumped...

1. 3 and half weeks to exercise option.
2. 6 weeks to do completion.
3. Renovation works start 2 weeks before completion.

Lawyer asked me if I am mad or what???

To a lay person like me, what is the difference betwen 2 and 3 weeks?
6 weeks...if buyer lawyer can do can oredi...
And renovate, buyer juz sign indemnity lah.

Lawyer asked me...what if buyer ask contractor to hack here and there, burst a pipe or two, create a leak to lower floor, and then dun complete?

Wah...usually I dun like lawyers, but for once, I am very thankful I met up with this one.

So, offer rejected. A little bit heart pain, cos it was a record breaking price psf for this development...

[teddybear]

Simple lah. Ask them to complete within 4 weeks and they can do whatever they like after taking over.

I nearly sold my condo...cheque in front of me for 1%...offer to purchase signed by buyers...Passed the draft of option to purchase to lawyer...

Lawyer jumped...

1. 3 and half weeks to exercise option.
2. 6 weeks to do completion.
3. Renovation works start 2 weeks before completion.

Lawyer asked me if I am mad or what???

To a lay person like me, what is the difference betwen 2 and 3 weeks?
6 weeks...if buyer lawyer can do can oredi...
And renovate, buyer juz sign indemnity lah.

Lawyer asked me...what if buyer ask contractor to hack here and there, burst a pipe or two, create a leak to lower floor, and then dun complete?

Wah...usually I dun like lawyers, but for once, I am very thankful I met up with this one.

So, offer rejected. A little bit heart pain, cos it was a record breaking price psf for this development...

[rattydrama]

why reject? nego terms or give abit of discount if target price hit

[AAA]

why reject? nego terms or give abit of discount if target price hit

Agreed, as long as you are protected, don't miss out on good opportunity.
Few years ago when I sold my east coast condo, my buyer requested to start renovation before completion. I make them sign a "indemnity" clause that in case the sales cannot be completed (due to whatever reasons), they must bear the cost of reinstating the apartment back to its original conditions.

[hyenergix]

Sounds like someone's lawyer should have recommended better alternative...

[AAA]

Agreed, as long as you are protected, don't miss out on good opportunity.
Few years ago when I sold my east coast condo, my buyer requested to start renovation before completion. I make them sign a "indemnity" clause that in case the sales cannot be completed (due to whatever reasons), they must bear the cost of reinstating the apartment back to its original conditions.

I reproduce the letter for your reference (LETTER OF INDEMNITY AND UNDERTAKING), hope it is not too late. Also, for my case, the seller agreed to pay Ppty tax and MCST chrgs starting from "possession date" (Clause 1).

TO: Vendor

Re: Property address

We, buyers XX YY hereby jointly and severally undertake:-

1) to pay and be responsible for all outgoings in respect of the Property including but not limited to property tax and maintenance charges as from (date of possession) until the completion of the sale and purchase of the Property ("the Holding-over Period") and to indemnify you in respect of such payments;

2) to exercise all reasonable care and diligence when using the Property so as to ensure that no notices and/or orders and/or summons from any government authority is/are issued against you and/or the Property;

3) to vacate and deliver vacant possession of the Property to you in its original state and condition immediately on demand in the event the completion of the sale and purchase of the Property fails to take place on completion date;

4) not to carry out any renovation works to the Property unless the prior written approval from the managment corporation and/or other relevant authorities have been obtained; and

5) to idemnify and keep indemnified you on a full indemnity basis against all actions, proceedings, claims and demands, costs, loss, demages and expenses which may be levied brought or made against you or which you may pay sustain or incur or become liable directly or indirectly by reason of our possession, use and occupation of the Property during Holding-over Period

Dated this XXXXXXXX


Yours faithfully

Sellers

Witness:

Law firm

[Geylang OKT]

I nearly sold my condo...cheque in front of me for 1%...offer to purchase signed by buyers...Passed the draft of option to purchase to lawyer...

Lawyer jumped...

1. 3 and half weeks to exercise option.
2. 6 weeks to do completion.
3. Renovation works start 2 weeks before completion.

Lawyer asked me if I am mad or what???

To a lay person like me, what is the difference betwen 2 and 3 weeks?
6 weeks...if buyer lawyer can do can oredi...
And renovate, buyer juz sign indemnity lah.

Lawyer asked me...what if buyer ask contractor to hack here and there, burst a pipe or two, create a leak to lower floor, and then dun complete?

Wah...usually I dun like lawyers, but for once, I am very thankful I met up with this one.

So, offer rejected. A little bit heart pain, cos it was a record breaking price psf for this development...

Your Option To Purchase can be modified to suit you, the Vendor. Donch listen to agents who tend to say the OTP is always standard or cannot be changed (remember it is draft). You should have asked the lawyer to redraft/negotiate the OTP to ensure that the revised OPT is mutually agreeable to both parties.

And also like some of the other bros in this forum has indicated, have the indemnity form signed by the Purchaser(s).

Maybe your lawyer jumped because he works very slowly, and cannot get all the necessary submissions and/or the bank redemption etc in time

This looks like a lose-lose situation to me.

1. 3 and half weeks to exercise option. (standard is 2 weeks)
2. 6 weeks to do completion. (8 to 10 weeks is common, but 6 weeks still do-able)
3. Renovation works start 2 weeks before completion. (get them to sign the Indemnity form lah)

[vip]

A reasonable time for early completion can be 8 weeks (from 1% deposit to completion). I have done this a few times before.

Before you sign on the dotted line, please check the following:

1) Sufficient notice period given to your mortgage bank to avoid penalty;

2) Your lawyer has sufficient time to deal with CPF board if you have withdrawn money from CPF; and

3) Your buyer's mortgage bank can release the loan in time.

Always check with your lawyer from time to time for the progress, they tend to put the blame on the lawyer on the other side for any delay.

Not recommend letting buyer to touch your place before completion of the transaction. Anything can happen (e.g. fire), especially things not covered by insurance, and the place is still under your name. Although the buyer signed indemnity, still too much hassle going through a legal case that you might not win in the end.

[repanse71]

Prevention is better than cure.

Personally, I will not do it. Yes, many would have this or that experience writing idemnity clause. But how many has actively pursued claims?

The key question you need to ask yourself is whether you are ready for the time and hassle when things go wrong?

With past bad experience, I would not do it. I rather earn a bit less.

regards

[sfwoo]

I went to another lawyer...he told me...dun let people reno before completion...indemnify you is useless if they run into cash flow problem after they finished hacking, bursting pipes and creating holes...

So, the deal is off.

My children very happy.

Cos they said they want to "inherit" their childhood condo when they grow up.

[Wolverine23]

I went to another lawyer...he told me...dun let people reno before completion...indemnify you is useless if they run into cash flow problem after they finished hacking, bursting pipes and creating holes...

So, the deal is off.

My children very happy.

Cos they said they want to "inherit" their childhood condo when they grow up.

by the time they start renovating, your buyer would have already paid you 5% (+ stamp duty to government).

it would be a waste to let a good selling price go just because of this.

[Wild Falcon]

It it is a good deal, I will take the risk. What's the difference in 2 weeks? If the person has already paid the option premium, he has no incentive at all to sabotage the renovation of his future home. Sometimes it's also a gut-feel thing - whether the person you're negotiating with seems genuine. The worst case is the buyer choose not to complete the deal - but in that case, you take the option premium into the pocket right? Lagi best. What is your downside if you're selling out? An indemnity is not a perfect solution but it would have given me enough comfort that the counter party is bona fide and acting in good faith. Your lawyer should have given u better advice other than a straight "no way". It is a commercial decision, not a legal decision, and lawyer should just shut up.

I nearly sold my condo...cheque in front of me for 1%...offer to purchase signed by buyers...Passed the draft of option to purchase to lawyer...

Lawyer jumped...

1. 3 and half weeks to exercise option.
2. 6 weeks to do completion.
3. Renovation works start 2 weeks before completion.

Lawyer asked me if I am mad or what???

To a lay person like me, what is the difference betwen 2 and 3 weeks?
6 weeks...if buyer lawyer can do can oredi...
And renovate, buyer juz sign indemnity lah.

Lawyer asked me...what if buyer ask contractor to hack here and there, burst a pipe or two, create a leak to lower floor, and then dun complete?

Wah...usually I dun like lawyers, but for once, I am very thankful I met up with this one.

So, offer rejected. A little bit heart pain, cos it was a record breaking price psf for this development...

[Wild Falcon]

And some of the best deals I've cut are the non-standard ones. It's only in desperate cases that you get good deals, i.e. deep discount for those who needs cash urgently (some even structured with higher upfront payment or high option value), or better premiums for those who want to move in quickly. Such non-standard agreements are really not that uncommon in the market place - in fact the good lawyers will have standard boilerplate templates already. Just make sure you get a good lawyer to draft your S&P and option agreement. In your case, the buyer already has siginificant skin in the game (5% + stamp duty?) when he starts his reno. He has no reason to walk. Even if he walks (which is very unlikely because he has no incentive to do so), you take the 5% and can sue for completion. This is something the lawyer should have told you for u make the final decision.

[Condorich]

And some of the best deals I've cut are the non-standard ones. It's only in desperate cases that you get good deals, i.e. deep discount for those who needs cash urgently (some even structured with higher upfront payment or high option value), or better premiums for those who want to move in quickly. Such non-standard agreements are really not that uncommon in the market place - in fact the good lawyers will have standard boilerplate templates already. Just make sure you get a good lawyer to draft your S&P and option agreement. In your case, the buyer already has siginificant skin in the game (5% + stamp duty?) whe.n he starts his reno. He has no reason to walk. Even if he walks (which is very unlikely because he has no incentive to do so), you take the 5% and can sue for completion. This is something the lawyer should have told you for u make the final decision.

That sounded like a experienced player. Anyway, it would be hard to get a refund of the stamp duty even if the deal fall through. Almost impossible. Some attempts in court were made to do that based on misrepresentation by seller and was turned down with costs.

When you want to decide, you have to think whether the 5% (if correct) paid to you is worth the risk of restoration. If the risk is small or you are prepared for it, such as in situation where your condo is already in poor shape and you are prepared to take back ownership if the deal fall through, you are actually better off to have them pay to do the demolition for you at their cost. Thereafter sue them for damages if they failed to complete the purchase (if you want to and find it worthwhile to do so - for specific performance as stated). If the selling price is high, you stand to gain more.

Anyway you (thread starter) might have missed out a good deal. Of course your children will be happy to inherited it from you. Strange childen, you are not dead yet and they are thinking about your money and assets. Strange world. How old are they? Are they filial or will be filial?

[Condorich]

Your Option To Purchase can be modified to suit you, the Vendor. Donch listen to agents who tend to say the OTP is always standard or cannot be changed (remember it is draft). You should have asked the lawyer to redraft/negotiate the OTP to ensure that the revised OPT is mutually agreeable to both parties.

And also like some of the other bros in this forum has indicated, have the indemnity form signed by the Purchaser(s).

Maybe your lawyer jumped because he works very slowly, and cannot get all the necessary submissions and/or the bank redemption etc in time

This looks like a lose-lose situation to me.

1. 3 and half weeks to exercise option. (standard is 2 weeks)
2. 6 weeks to do completion. (8 to 10 weeks is common, but 6 weeks still do-able)
3. Renovation works start 2 weeks before completion. (get them to sign the Indemnity form lah)

Actually it might not be lose lose. Let me try to make it win-win

All you need is actually keep to standard period of 2 weeks to exercise option.

They can start reno only upon exercising their option. Completion can be standard while both sides work to speed up the whole thing.

Same risk for aborting the purchase as in any other transaction.

But with the Letter of under taking, your risk is actually reduced and have a stronger ground in claiming for damages should things turn sour.

From that letter, I would infer that the buyers are quite sincere and the deal is likely to be completed. Thus Win-Win. (that is disregarding the price paid). Anyway decision is by owner. Buyer once rejected and walk away is hard to woo back.

[sfwoo]

OK....

The condo is in good condition...maybe grind parquet, polish marble, can move in oredi. Dun even need painting as paint is new, unless wanna change colours.

I am returning cheque today, rejecting offer.

My children are quite filial, especially the elder girl(P5)...and it is just that they are emotionally attached to the place cos they learnt swimming there, learnt cycling there, and No.3 and No. 4 was born there, which is why we had to move out, cos no more space!!!

Thanks for all the thoughts...

[Condorich]

No worries.


In fact, you might be better off keeping it for sale till later.

Anyway the next generation would have to pay alot more to get the same decent sized condo.

Keep it for rental and investment gains if you have no other investment plans or in need of $$.

Proponents of FH would say to keep it till enblocked.

[Rysk]

Simple lah. Ask them to complete within 4 weeks and they can do whatever they like after taking over.

Sometimes, is the buyer waiting for fund from his sold house.. but on the other hand wish to takeover the new one earlier to do some renovation etc.. so is not possible to complete early cos need to wait for fund to come in.

[sfwoo]

Sometimes, is the buyer waiting for fund from his sold house.. but on the other hand wish to takeover the new one earlier to do some renovation etc.. so is not possible to complete early cos need to wait for fund to come in.

If it was juz this...then got such thing called "bridging loan".

I think the buyer was trying to get all the timing right, move out and move in to new, no need to rent first, or bunk in somewhere, and furniture in warehouse...

[proud owner]

Sometimes, is the buyer waiting for fund from his sold house.. but on the other hand wish to takeover the new one earlier to do some renovation etc.. so is not possible to complete early cos need to wait for fund to come in.

i remember when i bought my landed in 2006 .. the owner was a single father whose sons are oversea studying.

hes like 60ish yo ..

he didnt request for late completion, or free stay or anything ..

but i found out that after completion, he would take the $ to make the final payment for his new condo, then do renovation, before he can move in

meanwhile he would move to his in law's place for 2 mths before he move again to the condo ..

since he was a nice old man ..and alone, i couldnt bear to see him move house 2 times within 2 mths ..

so i let him stay for free in the landed that i bought from him, till his renovation was complete ..

we became friends ..to this day

[devilplate]

i remember when i bought my landed in 2006 .. the owner was a single father whose sons are oversea studying.

hes like 60ish yo ..

he didnt request for late completion, or free stay or anything ..

but i found out that after completion, he would take the $ to make the final payment for his new condo, then do renovation, before he can move in

meanwhile he would move to his in law's place for 2 mths before he move again to the condo ..

since he was a nice old man ..and alone, i couldnt bear to see him move house 2 times within 2 mths ..

so i let him stay for free in the landed that i bought from him, till his renovation was complete ..

we became friends ..to this day

tats very nice of u

[Condorich]

i remember when i bought my landed in 2006 .. the owner was a single father whose sons are oversea studying.

hes like 60ish yo ..

he didnt request for late completion, or free stay or anything ..

but i found out that after completion, he would take the $ to make the final payment for his new condo, then do renovation, before he can move in

meanwhile he would move to his in law's place for 2 mths before he move again to the condo ..

since he was a nice old man ..and alone, i couldnt bear to see him move house 2 times within 2 mths ..

so i let him stay for free in the landed that i bought from him, till his renovation was complete ..

we became friends ..to this day

That's the difference.

Friends are made when you care. Black and white goes only so far.

I bet the previous owner did not look back at his sold price and the current price. Move on.

[sfwoo]

so i let him stay for free in the landed that i bought from him, till his renovation was complete ..

we became friends ..to this day

Wah...you are very good and kind...

But got a small difference letting people stay for free, and allowing hacking before completion. Too many issues in hacking, if nothing happen, all OK, if something happens(eg.downstairs ceiling leak water onto expensive carpet)...then very much paper work will arise.

I have ever let tenant stay free after lease up, but for few days only, cos waiting for aeroplane, then no need to stay hotel...

[proud owner]

That's the difference.

Friends are made when you care. Black and white goes only so far.

I bet the previous owner did not look back at his sold price and the current price. Move on.

correct

he did say i bought at a good price

he also said he bought the condo at a good price too


for an old man ... he knows ... buy low sell low ...and never dwell on it

[proud owner]

Wah...you are very good and kind...

But got a small difference letting people stay for free, and allowing hacking before completion. Too many issues in hacking, if nothing happen, all OK, if something happens(eg.downstairs ceiling leak water onto expensive carpet)...then very much paper work will arise.

I have ever let tenant stay free after lease up, but for few days only, cos waiting for aeroplane, then no need to stay hotel...

well i guess what i was trying to say is that ...

buyer and seller SHOULD have a conversation ...everything is negotiable

[sfwoo]

well i guess what i was trying to say is that ...

buyer and seller SHOULD have a conversation ...everything is negotiable

Must admit I have not spoken to buyer...cos the agent has key to my condo...and this one was co-broked...so another agent's client...so far, only know the names of the buyers.

Al the ding donging was done by SMS, email and fone calls...

[devilplate]

well i guess what i was trying to say is that ...

buyer and seller SHOULD have a conversation ...everything is negotiable

depends on individual and whether can 'click' anot....smtimes can turn out ugly

u guys allow nice tenant to break lease without forfeiture if he is genuinely dismiss by the coy?

[proud owner]

Must admit I have not spoken to buyer...cos the agent has key to my condo...and this one was co-broked...so another agent's client...so far, only know the names of the buyers.

Al the ding donging was done by SMS, email and fone calls...

IF you have to sell, for personal reasons and have a place to move to ..

and IF price is the best in your view ..then i would suggest you talk to buyer ( or thru agent/lawyer)


like fellow forumers said .. you can submit your version of the option ..

lf buyer dont accept then return cheque lor ..

[sfwoo]

depends on individual and whether can 'click' anot....smtimes can turn out ugly

u guys allow nice tenant to break lease without forfeiture if he is genuinely dismiss by the coy?

Yes. Especially those who are

[devilplate]

Yes. Especially those who are

cool

there r many nice ppl around...